It's about time to consider reforming the way our races are timed

[Calzone Lord]

In essence, the published fractional times and final time for every single race run in North America is a phony time.

The published distance of every single race, at every single track, is also wrong.

If the Belmont Stakes is really a "12 furlong" race ... than Real Quiet is really a triple crown winner, because here is what the finish looked like after 12 furlongs of actual running:



As most here obviously know, all races in North America are run at a distance slightly further than the published distance because of "run-up"

The purpose of "run-up" is to give the field a running start by the time they hit the actual start of the race. The amount of "run-up" tracks use vary wildly from distance to distance.

The whole point of doing this bologna was to make the impression that our horses were much faster than the horses who compete in the rest of the world.

This method of timing we use also helps make the early fractions of our races appear supersonic to the rest of the world. It's all smoke and mirrors.

In Dubai, the races are timed properly and if the race is run at the distance of 8 furlongs ... it's actually run at exactly that distance. Take a look at the fractions and final times from a few 2013 Dubai World Cup races:

2013 Godolphin Mile: 25.22, 47.97, 1:13.13, 1:39.97

* And the horse who set that blistering opening quarter of 25.22 finished 16th and last. But more importantly ... note that the 2nd quarter was 22.75 ... had this race been timed in America, that's a 45 and change pace here

2013 Dubai World Cup: 26.59, 50.02, 1:13.63, 1:38.66, 2:03.21

* Of course, Royal Delta was rocking and rolling on a loose lead through that 26.59 opening quarter. She finished 10th. The favorite Hunter's Light stalked that pace from 2nd position, he faded to finish 7th. Note the 23.43 second quarter ... that's a 46 and change pace the way we time races here.

People would always make a great big deal about the slow opening fractions in 8 furlong races at Gulfstream because of the minimal run-up.

However, there is a difference between even just 10ft of run-up and the timer and gate going off simultaneously. All of those 25 flat, and 48 4/5th fractions you saw at Gulfstream going a mile in 2012 would have looked worse if they had included a true flat-footed start.

Chris Johnson (CJ2K) has run the fastest 40-yard dash time in the history of the NFL Scouting Combine with a time of 4.24 seconds : His opening 10-yard split was 1.40 seconds.

If you timed Chris Johnson's 40 yard dash the way a North American horse race is timed, he'd run it in 3.80 seconds.

If you timed 350lbs lineman Dontari Poe that way, he'd be as fast as Chris Johnson is in a traditional 40.

The early paces in European turf races aren't as glacially slow as people think. A big part of it is smoke and mirrors and the softer ground they generally race on.

The marketing people and bluebloods in the stallion business might not like it ... but it's time to at least consider putting an end to the unnecessary smoke and mirrors and start timing races properly.

[Danzig]

i completely agree, doug. they should all be timed out of the gate, so that there was no question about who ran what and where, and whether the time is accurate, because you wouldn't have to be concerned with what track has what timer set where. obviously track surfaces play a part in times-but so does the run-up.
how long have tracks been using run-up timers? and if they're going to use them, they should all have to be at the same distance from the gate.

[Calzone Lord]

It's been this way for a long, long time.

Personally, It will be a whole lot easier for me if they don't change anything, at least initially.

But, it's a ridiculous way of doing things...I tried explaining this method of timing and distance we use to my girlfriend, it was one "why?" after another.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

But, it's a ridiculous way of doing things...I tried explaining this method of timing and distance we use to my girlfriend, it was one "why?" after another.

I'm thinking she has far more important "why" questions to ask herself.

[cmorioles]

I've always maintained European turf races, generally, are run at a faster pace than our races. Hell, the way riders ride these days, they are probably being run at a faster pace than our dirt races too.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm thinking she has far more important "why" questions to ask herself.

She works in a nut house.

I'm a refreshing change of pace I suppose.

[cmorioles]

There is another problem with run up. The start of the timing of the race is determined by how fast the first horse gets to the pole. At places like Santa Anita, with a football field of run-up, you might get a horse that has no chance break out 3 or 4 lengths in front of the field and start the clock, while all the others are lagging behind. The leader quits and loses by 50 lengths, but the other horses are basically penalized by his start.

To put it simply, horses are all given a final time, but we really don't know how far they ran to get that final time. It depends on the length of the run up and how far behind the horse was when the leader started the timing. It isn't much different than ground loss on turns, some horses run farther than other timing wise.

Another problem is tracks (like Gulfstream) that run the same distances with wildly varying run up, even on the same card. Luckily, that is pretty rare, but it happens.

[Calzone Lord]

Yep.

Eliminating run-up would also make it a lot easier to hand time races, at least in regard to hand timing them for final times.

Instead of having to guess at tough camera angles, you simply start the stopwatch the instant the gate starts to open. It takes tough camera angles entirely out of the equation.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

She works in a nut house.

I'm a refreshing change of pace I suppose.

I can honesty say if g-d allows you to reproduce I will denoiunce my belief that there is a g-d

[outofthebox]

The same goes for workouts from the gate. I've clocked horses from different venues and the run-up distance varied from day to day. Here at Evangeline Training Center we start our gate works from the pole. A 5/8 work in 1:02 can be compared equally to a 1:00 n change at a track that has a run-up start. Is there a longer run up than that of CD 6f start?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I can honesty say if g-d allows you to reproduce I will denoiunce my belief that there is a g-d

I'm already naming the child Freddy Mo.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

Is there a longer run up than that of CD 6f start?

It's one of the longest for sure!

Trinniberg and Secret Circle hooked up through a 20 4/5 opening quarter there in the BC Juvie Sprint. They have like 200ft of run-up sometimes at that distance.

Here are the fractions for Black Caviar in a six furlong race over in Australia:

Black Caviar: 13.75, 10.65, 10.30, 10.27, 10.65, 11.75 Final time of 1:07.36

The first quarter was just 24.40 seconds, obviously because they time races from a dead stand-still start and not because 'paces are slow over there'

Obviously, the reason why you have horses running furlongs in 9 3/5 seconds at 2yo sales is because they get huge run-up and they've accelerated to max speed by the time they hit the pole that starts timing.

Still, I would say the difference between a stand-still start and 10ft of run-up is probably a lot greater than 50ft of run-up vs 120ft.

If we started timing races the sensible and logical way in this country ... you would see half the grandstand befuddled by the fractions.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

It's one of the longest for sure!

Trinniberg and Secret Circle hooked up through a 20 4/5 opening quarter there in the BC Juvie Sprint. They have like 200ft of run-up sometimes at that distance.

Here are the fractions for Black Caviar in a six furlong race over in Australia:

Black Caviar: 13.75, 10.65, 10.30, 10.27, 10.65, 11.75 Final time of 1:07.36

The first quarter was just 24.40 seconds, obviously because they time races from a dead stand-still start and not because 'paces are slow over there'

Obviously, the reason why you have horses running furlongs in 9 3/5 seconds at 2yo sales is because they get huge run-up and they've accelerated to max speed by the time they hit the pole that starts timing.

Still, I would say the difference between a stand-still start and 10ft of run-up is probably a lot greater than 50ft of run-up vs 120ft.

If we started timing races the sensible and logical way in this country ... you would see half the grandstand befuddled by the fractions.

You should get Charles Carrol's Handicapping Speed. It is great when it comes to talking about how long it takes horses to get up to speed, how long they can hold it, etc.

[Sightseek]

This thread is really, really awesome guys!

[PatCummings]

I absolutely couldn't agree more with your CJ and Doug here. On the surface, it would seem easy to agree how to use a clock to time a race, but it's not.

When I was in Dubai, about five different people came up to me and asked if I thought Varsity had a legitimate chance. "Pat, did you see those times, 54 seconds, that's serious!"

Then commenced a discussion about how the US times races...

For the record - in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, some others, an electric pulse is tied between the starter's mechanism and the timing systems - when the button is depressed, the pulse triggers the start of the timing - essentially, when the gate opens, the clock begins, and you get true distance timings.

What you also said about 6F CD races is also correct - realistically, those races are roughly 6 1/3 furlongs from the pure starting gate location to the wire, with a run-up around 200 feet.

[Cannon Shell]

Are quarter horse races timed from the gate?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are quarter horse races timed from the gate?

To the best of my knowledge, and from doing a little bit of Google work, the answer is yes.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are quarter horse races timed from the gate?

Yes, definitely.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This thread is really, really awesome guys!

I was reading this earlier and have to agree.

Great stuff. Very informative.

[ninetoone]

Is there a way we can use this to upgrade or downgrade the derby prep races this year based on this information & the run up at the different prep tracks?