2012 Eclipse Awards finalists

[Round Pen]

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

I hope Jack has lots of good horses. No doubt he is one of the good guys.

[Calzone Lord]

Steve, I'm sorry, but having Wise Dan as the 3rd best older male and not even in the top 3 as a turf horse is completely ridiculous.

I understand Little Mike is an admirable turf horse who had a great season -- and I understand a case for putting him 1st as turf horse. Point of Entry 2nd? Ok. He also had a great season.

Unbridled Command over Wise Dan for 3rd is a complete facepalm ... even though I get the intent is to help Little Mike in that category.

We live at a time when compassion and award giving seem to go hand and hand. That was demonstrated by the Zenyatta vote over Blame. in a year where she did absolutely nothing Horse of the Year worthy other than losing to Blame with a great pace setup.

Alydar never won an eclipse award. Coastal never won an eclipse award, Gun Bow never won an Eclipse award. General Assembly never won an eclipse award. Sharp Cat never won an eclipse award, etc.

[Kasept]

Doug..

The way they score the thing, only the first place votes on a ballot really matter in terms of determining the finalists and winners.. the rest is window dressing. I subscribed to the Crist theory that Little Mike deserved Turf and then didn't think Fort Larned deserved to go without recognition, so I exclusively recognized Wise Dan as HOY only. It was a quirky year in that respect and I think all 3 of them should get something as opposed to Wise Dan getting 2 or even all 3 honors. And the way for me to 'voice' that was how I filled out the ballot.

Look at it like this with just the first selections on the ballot because that's all that really counts..

Horse of the Year: 1st - Wise Dan
Two-Year-Old Male: 1st - Shanghai Bobby
Two-Year-Old Filly: 1st - Beholder
Three-Year-Old Male: : 1st - I'll Have Another
Three-Year-Old Filly: 1st - Questing
Older Male: 1st - Fort Larned
Older Female: 1st - Royal Delta
Male Sprinter: 1st - Trinniberg
Female Sprinter: 1st - Groupie Doll
Male Turf Horse: 1st - Little Mike
Female Turf Horse: 1st - Zagora
Steeplechase Horse: 1st - Demonstrative

And the order in which the finalists are listed (Turf Male: Little Mike, Point of Entry, Wise Dan) is alphabetical.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Doug..

The way they score the thing, only the first place votes on a ballot really matter in terms of determining the finalists and winners.. the rest is window dressing. I subscribed to the Crist theory that Little Mike deserved Turf and then didn't think Fort Larned deserved to go without recognition, so I exclusively recognized Wise Dan as HOY only. It was a quirky year in that respect and I think all 3 of them should get something as opposed to Wise Dan getting 2 or even all 3 honors. And the way for me to 'voice' that was how I filled out the ballot.

They use a 10-5-1 point system for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

So, 3rd does count for a point and 2nd certainly matters.

Maybe they can make more awards like the Vox Populi for recognition in regard to horses who could have won divisions in other years, but might come up short this time.

If Wise Dan is your horse of the year -- he should certainly be in the top 3 in some other category. Logic dictates.

Dale Romans should be offended if he sees that ballot...

Shackleford 2nd for older male and Little Mike 1st in the turf category with no Wise Dan anywhere in sight ... it's almost like you're implying that Romans isn't a competent trainer and these horses deserve special recognition or extra credit for overcoming his bad training.

That is until Dale Romans reads he's been selected your outstanding trainer of the year.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

They use a 10-5-1 point system for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. So, 3rd does count for a point and 2nd certainly matters.

If Wise Dan is your horse of the year -- he should certainly be in the top 3 in some other category. Logic dictates.

About the scoring, the prelim process (10-5-1) identifies the 3 finalists but the 1st place votes then determine the winner. That's what I mean about the importance of the first place vote and the rest being window dressing.

The thing about logic dictating in this process is that there are plenty of elements to these discussions where logic is belied. As Privman said on Loose on the Lead today when I asked him, every year is a free standing circumstance and since there is no set formula for "older horse" v. "turf horse", voter perception rules. Yes the older horse and turf horse and HOY can colide -- John Henry -- but when Kotashaan was HOY and grass champion, Bertrando was best older male. If Kotashaan was HOY, why wasn't he top older male too?

My inclination is to reward everyone that was worthy and since there is a format available to acknowledge the best 'handicap' (dirt) elder -- Fort Larned -- the best 'traditional' grass horse -- Little Mike -- and the best horse overall for the year -- Wise Dan -- I chose to take advantage of it.

[Sightseek]

Rock on Dale wins trainer of the year!!!

[Sightseek]

Looking like a Dan sweep!

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

Mitch,

As Andy says, Oxley deserves respect and appreciation for his ongoing dedication to the game. His year jumped out at me when looking at the stats and after having his horses kept prisoner by Ward for the last 10+ years, I thought he should be recognized for re-booting his operation. Best for '13 to you, the Casses and Oxley.