2012 Eclipse Awards finalists

[10 pnt move up]

How do you have Mucho Macho Man who won two grade 2 events over a horse who won 2 grade 1 events and 3 grade 2 events?

[pweizer]

How can Wise Dan not even make the top three for male truf horse?

Paul

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pweizer

How can Wise Dan not even make the top three for male truf horse?

Paul

His prize is Horse of the Year for the consistent excellence and unique versatlity. It wasn't a conventional year in terms of pristine categorization and he's not a conventional 'turf' horse. I frequently like to use the 3rd slot to show appreciation for a horse that is being under-appreciated. The first place vote is what drives the results.

[Round Pen]

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

I hope Jack has lots of good horses. No doubt he is one of the good guys.

[Calzone Lord]

Steve, I'm sorry, but having Wise Dan as the 3rd best older male and not even in the top 3 as a turf horse is completely ridiculous.

I understand Little Mike is an admirable turf horse who had a great season -- and I understand a case for putting him 1st as turf horse. Point of Entry 2nd? Ok. He also had a great season.

Unbridled Command over Wise Dan for 3rd is a complete facepalm ... even though I get the intent is to help Little Mike in that category.

We live at a time when compassion and award giving seem to go hand and hand. That was demonstrated by the Zenyatta vote over Blame. in a year where she did absolutely nothing Horse of the Year worthy other than losing to Blame with a great pace setup.

Alydar never won an eclipse award. Coastal never won an eclipse award, Gun Bow never won an Eclipse award. General Assembly never won an eclipse award. Sharp Cat never won an eclipse award, etc.

[Kasept]

Doug..

The way they score the thing, only the first place votes on a ballot really matter in terms of determining the finalists and winners.. the rest is window dressing. I subscribed to the Crist theory that Little Mike deserved Turf and then didn't think Fort Larned deserved to go without recognition, so I exclusively recognized Wise Dan as HOY only. It was a quirky year in that respect and I think all 3 of them should get something as opposed to Wise Dan getting 2 or even all 3 honors. And the way for me to 'voice' that was how I filled out the ballot.

Look at it like this with just the first selections on the ballot because that's all that really counts..

Horse of the Year: 1st - Wise Dan
Two-Year-Old Male: 1st - Shanghai Bobby
Two-Year-Old Filly: 1st - Beholder
Three-Year-Old Male: : 1st - I'll Have Another
Three-Year-Old Filly: 1st - Questing
Older Male: 1st - Fort Larned
Older Female: 1st - Royal Delta
Male Sprinter: 1st - Trinniberg
Female Sprinter: 1st - Groupie Doll
Male Turf Horse: 1st - Little Mike
Female Turf Horse: 1st - Zagora
Steeplechase Horse: 1st - Demonstrative

And the order in which the finalists are listed (Turf Male: Little Mike, Point of Entry, Wise Dan) is alphabetical.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Thanks for the Vote for Mr Oxley its a Shame he did not atleast make the final 3. Most don't know him But he is one of the Good guys in our Sport. Its an absolute pleasure getting to break and train his young horses each year. I know its early and hard to get a good gauge on 2 year olds at this time of year but I like the Hand we are holding for Mr O.

Mitch,

As Andy says, Oxley deserves respect and appreciation for his ongoing dedication to the game. His year jumped out at me when looking at the stats and after having his horses kept prisoner by Ward for the last 10+ years, I thought he should be recognized for re-booting his operation. Best for '13 to you, the Casses and Oxley.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

How do you have Mucho Macho Man who won two grade 2 events over a horse who won 2 grade 1 events and 3 grade 2 events?

You mean Game On Dude? Every event is nothing more than the value of the race's grading? The performances and participants involved don't have any bearing? Mucho Macho Man was a head from winning the Classic and arguably was impeded from winning the Woodward. Game On Dude beat up on relatively little most of the year and then was shown up for being rather one dimensional when not getting his way in the Classic.. on his home track no less. I'd have put Game On Dude 4th if that was an option, but in my judgement he didn't distinguish himself to a greater degree than Mucho Macho Man in 2012.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You mean Game On Dude? Every event is nothing more than the value of the race's grading? The performances and participants involved don't have any bearing? Mucho Macho Man was a head from winning the Classic and arguably was impeded from winning the Woodward. Game On Dude beat up on relatively little most of the year and then was shown up for being rather one dimensional when not getting his way in the Classic.. on his home track no less. I'd have put Game On Dude 4th if that was an option, but in my judgement he didn't distinguish himself to a greater degree than Mucho Macho Man in 2012.

If we just went on who they beat in socal then Zenyatta should never have won very much, she never beat much of anything out there. You show up for grade 1 events and win them, often in dominating fast performances and its your fault no one else showed up. Why have a grading system at all?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

If we just went on who they beat in socal then Zenyatta should never have won very much, she never beat much of anything out there. You show up for grade 1 events and win them, often in dominating fast performances and its your fault no one else showed up. Why have a grading system at all?

Game on Dude shouldn't win anything, but he got screwed on the basis of one bad performance.

The fact that Little Mike is actually an older male finalist over him pretty much shows you that the voting biased against the horse tailing off or the horse who bombs on BC day is still there. He is a main track horse, Little Mike is a turf horse.

I would be shocked if Questing wins...even though there is no one else to give it to in that category.

There has always been a strong bias against the horse who tails off late in the season or doesn't fire in the Breeders Cup.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

If we just went on who they beat in socal then Zenyatta should never have won very much, she never beat much of anything out there. You show up for grade 1 events and win them, often in dominating fast performances and its your fault no one else showed up. Why have a grading system at all?

I understand where you're coming from but it's one dimensional to strictly judge horses' seasons -- and careers -- on just the pure number power of the graded stakes. The grading system was created by/for the breeders as a generality. We can analyze the specific events more closely for a better handle on the quality of the races themselves and the performances within them.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Kasept

My inclination is to reward everyone that was worthy

That is common in society today.

I once got an award for finishing 4th out of 5 in a track and field event in 8th grade.

Unbridled Command over Wise Dan for 3rd best turf horse is brutal Steve.

The Bertrando year, he won older male because they had a special category for turf horses.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

That is common in society today. I once got an award for finishing 4th out of 5 in a track and field event in 8th grade.

This is a slightly different. Wise Dan, Little Mike and Fort Larned all deserve recognition for the campaigns they had. They transcended awkward teenage guido long jumpers...

[rpncaine]

Originally Posted by Kasept

This is a slightly different. Wise Dan, Little Mike and Fort Larned all deserve recognition for the campaigns they had. They transcended awkward teenage guido long jumpers...

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Kasept

This is a slightly different. Wise Dan, Little Mike and Fort Larned all deserve recognition for the campaigns they had. They transcended awkward teenage guido long jumpers...

Maybe so, but if they don't, that's life in the big city.

Sharp Cat deserved recognition more than Little Mike or Fort Larned.



She was a multiple Grade 1 winner at ages 2, 3, and 4.

She was the post time favorite in the Santa Anita Derby and cost Silver Charm the race.

She won her final start for Lukas in a walkover in a Grade 2 race. She was getting close to invincible after she left Lukas.

Look at the Spectacular Bid crop of 3-year-old males. That was the most strung out crop on fast figures at the high end ever. Horses like Private Account (sire of Hall of Famers Personal Ensign and Inside Information) and Relaunch (sire of 3 multi millionaires and dam sire of Ghostzapper) couldn't compete with the 3rd and 4th stringers. And the 3rd and 4th stringers were running numbers like strong champions most years compared with other stakes divisions, alw divisions, maiden divisions, claiming divisions, of both genders.