NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

so the fact that euro's train on lasix means nothing to you?

You are reaching conclusions through information that you are just assuming.

Most of them don't train on Lasix.

[Antitrust32]

questions that i have with regards to bleeding.

In theory, could dirt racing cause a horse to bleed more often than turf racing? with all the kickback in dirt racing.. could dirt or dust go into the horses lungs and cause it to bleed when maybe it wouldnt?

Also.. would sprinters be more inclined to bleed than distance horses? Could putting maximum effort through a 6 or 7 furlong race be more taxing than galloping along with a full out sprint at the end in a distance race?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

questions that i have with regards to bleeding.

In theory, could dirt racing cause a horse to bleed more often than turf racing? with all the kickback in dirt racing.. could dirt or dust go into the horses lungs and cause it to bleed when maybe it wouldnt?

No. Foreign body inhalation (although yes, that occurs, and worse on dirt than turf) does not cause Exercise Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage. Particles of dirt and dust cannot physically enter the parts of the lung (the alveolar-capillary interface) where EIPH occurs. They are too big.

EIPH is thought to be caused mainly by huge pressure differences that occur during maximal exercise between the capillaries of the lung (oxygenation) blood system and the alveoli (air sacs) in the lungs, and physical damage (sheer) in the dorsocaudal lung lobes due to forelegs pounding during intense exercise.

Also.. would sprinters be more inclined to bleed than distance horses? Could putting maximum effort through a 6 or 7 furlong race be more taxing than galloping along with a full out sprint at the end in a distance race?

Yes. More intense exercise, maximal respiratory effort by the horse, is associated directly with EIPH.

A hard dirt track seems to induce more EIPH than a soft turf course, but that's observational. EIPH is associated with maximal respiratory effort and physical pounding, no matter the discipline, hemisphere or breed of horse.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

No. Foreign body inhalation (although yes, that occurs, and worse on dirt than turf) does not cause Exercise Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage. Particles of dirt and dust cannot physically enter the parts of the lung (the alveolar-capillary interface) where EIPH occurs. They are too big.

Small airway disease resulting from inhalation of environmental contaminants is not thought to cause or exacerbate EIPH?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Small airway disease resulting from inhalation of environmental contaminants is not thought to cause or exacerbate EIPH?

Yes, small airway disease such as chronic inflammation, allergy does exacerbate EIPH. Yes, environmental contaminants (air pollution, ammonia in air from stall, chronic dust in air from straw/hay) can cause small airway disease.

Dirt in the airways from inhalation racing doesn't get down to the bronchioles, let alone alveoli. It stays in the first 4 generations of lung branching (in the trachea and major bronchi) and is readily moved up and out by cilliary action in most cases. Not a big contributor to airway inflammation. Just like dirt inhaled into your nose when you dirt bike or run in a dusty place is snotted out readily, and doesn't give you an asthma attack. Dust in the air doesn't get down there, either. A particle has to be particular micron size to make it down there. Nature's design is good.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, small airway disease such as chronic inflammation, allergy does exacerbate EIPH. Yes, environmental contaminants (air pollution, ammonia in air from stall, chronic dust in air from straw/hay) can cause small airway disease.

Dirt in the airways from inhalation racing doesn't get down to the bronchioles, let alone alveoli. It stays in the first 4 generations of lung branching (in the trachea and major bronchi) and is readily moved up and out by cilliary action in most cases. Not a big contributor to airway inflammation. Just like dirt inhaled into your nose when you dirt bike or run in a dusty place is snotted out readily, and doesn't give you an asthma attack. Dust in the air doesn't get down there, either. A particle has to be particular micron size to make it down there. Nature's design is good.

So horses at racing speed, where ventilation is dramatically increased, are not possibly inhaling bacteria, viruses, or other organic or inorganic matter of the requisite size while taking in clods of dirt in a cloud of kickback?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

So horses at racing speed, where ventilation is dramatically increased, are not possibly inhaling bacteria, viruses, or other organic or inorganic matter of the requisite size while taking in clods of dirt in a cloud of kickback?

Bacteria, viruses and other organic and inorganic matter are of markedly different sizes, and thus are only capable of reaching certain places within the lungs.

As EIPH is not caused by the presence of bacteria, viruses and other organic and inorganic matter, their presence is not directly contributory.

Lower airway inflammation that affects the integrity of the alveolar-capillary interface and constriction of bronchioles (that can be contributory to EIPH caused by pressure difference) is different from upper airway inflammation, and organic and inorganic matter are rarely, if at all, associated with lower airway inflammation.

Bacteria and viruses can cause infection with subsequent scarring if they are respiratory pathogens and are inhaled, not removed by immunologic and physical defense systems, and set up housekeeping within the lungs. That takes at least 6 hours or longer, thus inhalation during a race is not contributory to EIPH that occurs during that race.

A previous episode of lung infection/pneumonia, if it causes scarring or lung damage, can in the future make the horse more susceptible to dorso-caudal lung lobe problems, however that is not the most common location within the lung of infection/pneumonia.

Medicine: it takes a thorough in-depth knowledge of normal anatomy and physiology before one can start identifying and speculating upon the abnormal.

Do you have a point, or are you just dancing for Freddy?