Kentucky's ongoing attempt to end racing in state proceeds..

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I would rather that my trainers did not use lasix.

Then buy a box of FLAIR nasal strips, and drop it off at the barn, and see if your trainer will still train for you using those. I'm serious - they have proven efficacy for EIPH. You can get them for $10-15 a strip (single use).

By the way: if we eliminate lasix, I imagine that many will go back to what they used to use before lasix - removing water from the horse for a day or two. That type of severe forced dehydration (which is unlike the diuresis induced by lasix for multiple reasons) is NOT a scenario I'd like to see.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Then buy a box of FLAIR nasal strips, and drop it off at the barn, and see if your trainer will still train for you using those. I'm serious - they have proven efficacy for EIPH. You can get them for $10-15 a strip (single use).

By the way: if we eliminate lasix, I imagine that many will go back to what they used to use before lasix - removing water from the horse for a day or two. That type of severe forced dehydration (which is unlike the diuresis induced by lasix for multiple reasons) is NOT a scenario I'd like to see.

In your opinion, how effective are the FLAIR nasal strips in comparison to lasix?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

In your opinion, how effective are the FLAIR nasal strips in comparison to lasix?

Go back about 3-4 pages, I think. There were multiple posts about the efficacy of FLAIR nasal strips, including Sightseek posting the link http://www.flairstrips.com/wp-conten...-Camp-2011.pdf to a wonderful FLAIR company brochure describing EIPH in an easy-to-understand manner, describing how FLAIR works, and listing all the efficacy data studies for their product.

Bottom line: FLAIR has the same measurable efficacy as lasix in decreasing the frequency and severity of EIPH episodes. That is why other maximally-exerting horse sports, who cannot use lasix, use the FLAIR strips universally at advanced and professional levels.

Many trainers don't care for them. Cannon? You ever try them?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Go back about 3-4 pages, I think. There were multiple posts about the efficacy of FLAIR nasal strips, including Sightseek (I believe) posting the link a wonderful FLAIR company brochure describing EIPH in an easy-to-understand manner, describing how FLAIR works, and listing all the efficacy data studies for their product.

Bottom line: FLAIR has the same measurable efficacy as lasix in decreasing the frequency and severity of EIPH episodes. That is why other maximally-exerting horse sports, who cannot use lasix, use the FLAIR strips universally at advanced and professional levels.

Many trainers don't care for them. Cannon? You ever try them?

For the trainers that don't care for them, what is their reason for not liking them?

I'm sure that plenty of trainers would rather use lasix because they think lasix is a performance-enhancer. I'm not just guessing that. I know for a fact that many trainers think lasix is a performance-enhancer because many have told me that.

I have another question for you. As we all know, some horses get small doses of lasix while other horses (usually known bleeders) get much bigger doses. Do you think there would be any downside to giving all horses a big dose of lasix?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I'm sure that plenty of trainers would rather use lasix because they think lasix is a performance-enhancer. I'm not just guessing that. I know for a fact that many trainers think lasix is a performance-enhancer because many have told me that.

Of course that is the reason, but nobody seems to want to admit it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Of course that is the reason, but nobody seems to want to admit it.

Admit what? That horses that are not bleeding into their lungs and suffocating themselves have more air and run better? Not really a secret It's all about the VO2Max rocking that immediate, glycolytic and oxidative energy pathways. He whose ATP lasts the longest, wins.

It's that simple :-)

[cmorioles]

NO, what has been said many times, that Lasix enhances performance even for those that don't bleed.

I'm curious to hear these reasons for using Lasix when a cheaper nasal strip that doesn't involve an injection and dehydration does just as well. This should be good.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

For the trainers that don't care for them, what is their reason for not liking them?

I'm sure that plenty of trainers would rather use lasix because they think lasix is a performance-enhancer. I'm not just guessing that. I know for a fact that many trainers think lasix is a performance-enhancer because many have told me that.

I have another question for you. As we all know, some horses get small doses of lasix while other horses (usually known bleeders) get much bigger doses. Do you think there would be any downside to giving all horses a big dose of lasix?

Wasting lasix.

The dose that must be given is within the published parameters of efficacy for the drug, usually (depending upon state) 150-200mg up to 500mg, and that legally allowed dose covers dosing a variety of horses by weight at 0.5 - 1.0 mg/kg, which is the lowest established efficacious dose for lasix (cardiac patients in fulminant pulmonary edema will get 4-6 mg/kg)

I don't know why some trainers don't like FLAIRS. Have to ask them.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Wasting lasix.

The dose that must be given is within the published parameters of efficacy for the drug, usually (depending upon state) 150-200mg up to 500mg, and that legally allowed dose covers dosing a variety of horses by weight at 0.5 - 1.0 mg/kg, which is the lowest established efficacious dose for lasix (cardiac patients in fulminant pulmonary edema will get 4-6 mg/kg)

I don't know why some trainers don't like FLAIRS. Have to ask them.

I think they use a 10 point scale in talking about how big a dose a horse is going to get. A bad bleeder would get a 10 point dose, meaning that the bigger dose you get, the less chance there is that you will bleed. If that is the case, why wouldn't trainers give all their horses a 10 point dose, if there was no downside?

There obviously is downside. The bigger dose you give them, the more dehydrated they get. In addition, if you give them the biggest dose allowable, it may make the horse too dull. Several trainers have told me that lasix can dull a horse. Do you agree with that?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think they use a 10 point scale in talking about how big a dose a horse is going to get. A bad bleeder would get a 10 point dose, meaning that the bigger dose you get, the less chance there is that you will bleed. If that is the case, why wouldn't trainers give all their horses a 10 point dose, if there was no downside?

There obviously is downside. The bigger dose you give them, the more dehydrated they get. In addition, if you give them the biggest dose allowable, it may make the horse too dull. Several trainers have told me that lasix can dull a horse. Do you agree with that?

The legal dose limit at 40mg/cc is 3-4cc up to 10cc. If you have an exceptionally little 850-900 pound horse (most are 1000-1100 pounds) and fill it up with 10cc of lasix, that's still only 1mg/kg body weight.

Which will not dehydrate a horse more than 0.5-1.5% of it's body weight (not clinically detectable and easily replaceable by a few buckets of water), and is far lower than the dose used in cardiac patients.

If a trainer is withholding water for an exceptionally long time, or really messing with electrolytes (I am not talking good normal electrolyte replacement, or normal water withholding), that can potentiate the effects of lasix, because one is not supposed to do that and give lasix.

Individual animals can respond differently, too - we don't know how great each animals own kidneys are. You have to be careful giving lasix to horses with annhydrosis (non-sweaters), etc. If it's a really hot day, the horse is going to dehydrate standing in it's stall sweating if it doesn't drink enough, lasix or not.

The dose that racehorses get is really on the low end of the furosemide dosage range, even at 10cc for a tiny horse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Go back about 3-4 pages, I think. There were multiple posts about the efficacy of FLAIR nasal strips, including Sightseek posting the link http://www.flairstrips.com/wp-conten...-Camp-2011.pdf to a wonderful FLAIR company brochure describing EIPH in an easy-to-understand manner, describing how FLAIR works, and listing all the efficacy data studies for their product.

Bottom line: FLAIR has the same measurable efficacy as lasix in decreasing the frequency and severity of EIPH episodes. That is why other maximally-exerting horse sports, who cannot use lasix, use the FLAIR strips universally at advanced and professional levels.

Many trainers don't care for them. Cannon? You ever try them?

I use them on occasion but not enough to draw any conclusions. When it is hot out they dont stay on very well