Jones on HDG and weight

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by PeteMugg

I didn't say there shouldn't be any weight given, just that it didn't have to make all horses even. Obviously, the amount is up to debate, but fair and even aren't necessarily the same thing.

As has been mentioned, making all horses even is kinda the whole point of the weighting system in a handicap race. The reason Man O' War didn't run at age 4 is that a racing secretary basically told Riddle that he'd be topping 140 regularly, and they didn't want to risk Man O' War by loading him up the way he'd need to be to make him equal with other horses. He was already having a hard time coming up with opponents. He carried 130 as a 2yo several times and 138 as a 3yo.

I know Havre de Grace isn't Man O' War but c'mon. If Porter thinks giving up 5-10 lbs is a travesty, I guess he wouldn't do like Mr. Riddle and send his horse to post giving up as much as 32 lbs. Why race this mare if they won't let her run under the weights a HOY should against lesser competition? I thought Porter calling out Pope was inappropriate. He didn't pull that number or the number for any other horse out of his arse. Bravo to Oaklawn for having integrity and calling their bluff. If this is how it's gonna be all year, it'd have been better for everyone to retire her. I can't bring myself to give them a pat on the back for keeping her in under these circumstances. Race her against boys, you'll get your precious weight break, and it'll be more entertaining for everyone.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

As has been mentioned, making all horses even is kinda the whole point of the weighting system in a handicap race. The reason Man O' War didn't run at age 4 is that a racing secretary basically told Riddle that he'd be topping 140 regularly, and they didn't want to risk Man O' War by loading him up the way he'd need to be to make him equal with other horses. He was already having a hard time coming up with opponents. He carried 130 as a 2yo several times and 138 as a 3yo.

I know Havre de Grace isn't Man O' War but c'mon. If Porter thinks giving up 5-10 lbs is a travesty, I guess he wouldn't do like Mr. Riddle and send his horse to post giving up as much as 32 lbs. Why race this mare if they won't let her run under the weights a HOY should against lesser competition? I thought Porter calling out Pope was inappropriate. He didn't pull that number or the number for any other horse out of his arse. Bravo to Oaklawn for having integrity and calling their bluff. If this is how it's gonna be all year, it'd have been better for everyone to retire her. I can't bring myself to give them a pat on the back for keeping her in under these circumstances. Race her against boys, you'll get your precious weight break, and it'll be more entertaining for everyone.

But isn't there a chance, that his hissy fit will pay off in the long run? Isn't it almost like a supply and demand type deal, where tracks will cave in to Porter's demand so HVG runs at their track? I'm not saying that she has the drawing power of Rachael or Zenyatta (West of the Rockies ), but you would think that it would be benificial to the track to have one todays stars run at their track. So while Oaklawn is being applauded for standing up to him, aren't they just cutting their nose to spite their face?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

But isn't there a chance, that his hissy fit will pay off in the long run? Isn't it almost like a supply and demand type deal, where tracks will cave in to Porter's demand so HVG runs at their track? I'm not saying that she has the drawing power of Rachael or Zenyatta (West of the Rockies ), but you would think that it would be benificial to the track to have one todays stars run at their track. So while Oaklawn is being applauded for standing up to him, aren't they just cutting their nose to spite their face?

I think that the supposed benefit of having this particular filly run at your track would easily be off set by having a 4 horse field with her a 2-5 fav. The money they will lose in handle as opposed to a larger, more competitive field will probably be greater than the added attendance and extra hot dogs sold. IMO Oaklawn didn't stand up to him as much as Pope simply weighted the race fairly. If Mr Porter feels that the weights are unfair than he can just keep her in weight for age races and stakes run under allowance conditions however to act as though thse weights weren't accurately made is a joke. If anything she may have been assigned too little weight especially considering that many of the lower weighted horses would probably wind up with jocks who are a few pounds over anyway.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think that the supposed benefit of having this particular filly run at your track would easily be off set by having a 4 horse field with her a 2-5 fav. The money they will lose in handle as opposed to a larger, more competitive field will probably be greater than the added attendance and extra hot dogs sold. IMO Oaklawn didn't stand up to him as much as Pope simply weighted the race fairly. If Mr Porter feels that the weights are unfair than he can just keep her in weight for age races and stakes run under allowance conditions however to act as though thse weights weren't accurately made is a joke. If anything she may have been assigned too little weight especially considering that many of the lower weighted horses would probably wind up with jocks who are a few pounds over anyway.

Amen. You know 123 is ridiculous for a HOY and 5yo mare. What weight should she be carrying? They deflate them so much these days. If she carried what's fair against her own sex in the Apple Blossom for instance, what does she go to post with? There needs to be a term for throwing your weight around over what they assign your horse. Name it after Bobby Frankel.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Amen. You know 123 is ridiculous for a HOY and 5yo mare. What weight should she be carrying? They deflate them so much these days. If she carried what's fair against her own sex in the Apple Blossom for instance, what does she go to post with? There needs to be a term for throwing your weight around over what they assign your horse. Name it after Bobby Frankel.

oh, but that was just an arbitrary voter decision.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Danzig

oh, but that was just an arbitrary voter decision.

Porter basically goes 'oh that was based on a voting contest, and doesn't account for what happened on the track.' Wha-huh? If we were voting for the horse we liked the most, and it didn't matter what their racetrack accomplishments were, heck, let's start taking nominations and do a re-vote. I think we'd get a pretty fun group of HOY finalists from that. Come one, come all. Optional claimers with a great personality, a pretty blaze, whatever, you're eligible!...let's do this!

[TouchOfGrey]

The real reason Havre de Grace is skipping the Apple Blossom