Vote on Debt Limit increase?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I would vote against this in Congress, and try to get many others to do the same. Rubber stamping debt increases is not going to provide any incentive for the necessary slashing of spending.

If the "Day of Reckoning" comes sooner, so be it. For in order to end this debt crisis gracefully, there will have to be a severe and steady deceleration of spending.

To keep raising the debt ceiling until the creditors (a.k.a. China et al.) cut us off is not an answer.

So you're entirely okay with the United States defaulting on our debt, and pushing the world into a worldwide recession? And living with the poverty and increased interest rates for everyone (by marked percentage points) for the next two decades at least, if not permanently? The permanent change of life as we know it in the United States? The US becoming no longer a leading first world country?

That's crazy and irresponsible. That is exactly what will happen if we never borrow one more penny, but fail to raise the debt ceiling.

Seriously, Joey - what did you think of Geithner's January letter? That's it's a lie?

You wanna know what we would have to "slash" for the remainder of this year and next in order to not increase the debt ceiling? $754 billion. That's physically impossible.

Hey, you guys can continue to argue that position. I'm out. It's a batshiat crazy position.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

So you're entirely okay with the United States defaulting on our debt, and pushing the world into a worldwide recession? And living with the poverty and increased interest rates for everyone (by marked percentage points) for the next two decades at least, if not permanently? The permanent change of life as we know it in the United States? The US becoming no longer a leading first world country?

That's crazy and irresponsible. That is exactly what will happen if we never borrow one more penny, but fail to raise the debt ceiling.

Seriously, Joey - what did you think of Geithner's January letter? That's it's a lie?

You wanna know what we would have to "slash" for the remainder of this year and next in order to not increase the debt ceiling? $754 billion. That's physically impossible.

Hey, you guys can continue to argue that position. I'm out. It's a batshiat crazy position.

Every time the debt ceiling vote comes up, it is raised. EVERY time. That's batshiat crazy. And, if we go Riot's way, and many agree with her,it's a "must" to keep borrowing more...when we can't afford the debt we already have.

The crazy and irresponsible behavior has already occurred: the accumulation of this debt in the first place.

Every other effect you list: poverty, decline in world position for our country, standard of living changes, will certainly occur when we cannot borrow one more penny from a creditor. That day is rapidly approaching. By choosing to limit our own borrowing - as late in the game as it is - give us a chance to recover.

Automatically raising the debt ceiling - which is what will occur every time so long as we are driven by fear - will not let us change course at all until we default - for real - permanently, and every effect you list will be even more severe.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

You wanna know what we would have to "slash" for the remainder of this year and next in order to not increase the debt ceiling? $754 billion. That's physically impossible.

Why? If they can borrow and spend $862 billion as part of a "stimulus", why can't we cut an amount less than that?

[lord007]

How About Stop Spending Period??????

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Why? If they can borrow and spend $862 billion as part of a "stimulus", why can't we cut an amount less than that?

Thats what I was thinking.

we need to slash everything by 25% across the board. Starting with military.

[joeydb]

Still would vote no, and will call congressman and senators to try to persuade them.

Spend more? The answer is "NO!" Enough.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Still would vote no, and will call congressman and senators to try to persuade them.

Spend more? The answer is "NO!" Enough.

I wish you could understand the basic concept that the debt ceiling being raised has nothing at all to do with increasing our spending.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

I wish you could understand the basic concept that the debt ceiling being raised has nothing at all to do with increasing our spending.

Well it SHOULD, should it not? Why are we spending more than we take in, ever, let alone for many, many years?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Well it SHOULD, should it not? Why are we spending more than we take in, ever, let alone for many, many years?

That has nothing to do with our debt ceiling, though. That's budgeting. And budget trouble started back in 2000, Joey. Yes, not from scratch, but we did some very major things to screw ourselves during the 2000's. There is no denying that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_ceiling#Debt_ceiling

Look: if you are paying compounding interest rates of X on your car, house and credit cards, saying you no longer can afford to pay X, you want to pay X - 3, doesn't make those interest rates drop or go away.

You can say you refuse to pay that accumulating, compounding interest any more, but saying that doesn't make it go away, and defaulting on it is a financial disaster. There is also the component of the debt ceiling that goes to our cash flow.