4/16 (KEE): G1 Blue Grass, G2 Wiley/Commonwealth, G3 Shakertown

[odbaxter]

I really like Brilliant Speed in here. Any chance that he drifts out to 8-1 - 10-1 range.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by odbaxter

I really like Brilliant Speed in here. Any chance that he drifts out to 8-1 - 10-1 range.

I really like him too - doesn't he have to be 10-1+ easy?

[odbaxter]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I really like him too - doesn't he have to be 10-1+ easy?

I'm worried that he takes money and isn't going to look as nice at 4-1 or 9-2. I think this going to be a sweet betting race.

[hockey2315]

King Congie, Santiva, Sensational Slam, Willcox Inn, Wilkinson, and Crimson China all look like they should be shorter prices to me.

[Hoist Her Flag]

Anyone know if they are doing the Makers Mark Bluegrass Double this year?

[asudevil]

Exacta Box
Santiva/Twinspired

[my miss storm cat]

Please be advised that if you can't stomach five seconds of Wiley-related "awwwww"-ness you should refrain from clicking the link.

http://todmarks.photoshelter.com/gal...000wiTAT8P1mIo

And now back to our regularly scheduled bitterness and sarcasm fest (kidding!).

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I really like him too - doesn't he have to be 10-1+ easy?

Great call you guys. Hope you cashed

[odbaxter]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I really like him too - doesn't he have to be 10-1+ easy?

Nice call on the price Hockey.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I really like him too - doesn't he have to be 10-1+ easy?

Nice job, guys. Looking at the pedigree, his 2nd dam is a full sister to Touch Gold, half to With Approval. I don't suppose he's magically developed an affinity for dirt since age 2, has he? I feel like I'm tilting at windmills when I get hopeful about there being a G1 caliber, ungelded son of Dynaformer that likes dirt (besides Barbaro obviously) and doesn't get sold overseas.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Nice job, guys. Looking at the pedigree, his 2nd dam is a full sister to Touch Gold, half to With Approval. I don't suppose he's magically developed an affinity for dirt since age 2, has he? I feel like I'm tilting at windmills when I get hopeful about there being a G1 caliber, ungelded son of Dynaformer that likes dirt (besides Barbaro obviously) and doesn't get sold overseas.

Ms. Webber isnt selling .. Dynaformer gets plenty of dirt winners and to tag him as a turf only stallion is not correct. If you listened to Nathan Fox on ATR's on Friday he outlined Dynaformers success very well. That doesnt mean that Chuck is wrong about Brilliant Speed being a turfer just that Dynaformer can produce any type.

Chuck if she doesnt get excited about winning the Blue Grass and taking a shot in a few weeks whats the point of breeding and race?

[hockey2315]

That was a crazy run he made, but that track's a joke and he's not a dirt horse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ms. Webber isnt selling .. Dynaformer gets plenty of dirt winners and to tag him as a turf only stallion is not correct. If you listened to Nathan Fox on ATR's on Friday he outlined Dynaformers success very well. That doesnt mean that Chuck is wrong about Brilliant Speed being a turfer just that Dynaformer can produce any type.

Chuck if she doesnt get excited about winning the Blue Grass and taking a shot in a few weeks whats the point of breeding and race?

While they were 2 yo sprints his 2 dirt start were miserable.

Freddy at one point in this sport's not so distant past people with stables like Live Oak weren't excited to run 40-1 shots in races they really don't belong in. Not saying that they shouldn't be excited to win the Bluegrass regardless of how irrelevant the race has become.

Another pretty much unsaid factor on why we dont have any good older horses anymore is so many of them are ruined on this crusade to "qualify" for the Derby. Not necessarily the bunch in the Bluegrass because most are just pokey turf horses for the most part. Look at Crimson China. Not only has he never run on dirt, Motion never even works the horse on dirt!

[Cannon Shell]

Dynaformer can produce a dirt horse just 90% of them aren't and Brilliant Speed hasn't given any indication that he is.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dynaformer can produce a dirt horse just 90% of them aren't and Brilliant Speed hasn't given any indication that he is.

Perfect Drift, Dynever, Barbaro just to name a few OK dirt horses?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

While they were 2 yo sprints his 2 dirt start were miserable.

Freddy at one point in this sport's not so distant past people with stables like Live Oak weren't excited to run 40-1 shots in races they really don't belong in. Not saying that they shouldn't be excited to win the Bluegrass regardless of how irrelevant the race has become.

Another pretty much unsaid factor on why we dont have any good older horses anymore is so many of them are ruined on this crusade to "qualify" for the Derby. Not necessarily the bunch in the Bluegrass because most are just pokey turf horses for the most part. Look at Crimson China. Not only has he never run on dirt, Motion never even works the horse on dirt!

Everyone wants to win the Derby and or the Breeder Cup Classic.. It is what it is nobody cares if they ruin a could be horse on the way to a shot of glory. If you have a decent colt and you have shot of being 1 of 20 in the gate that seems to be the only thing that matters.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Everyone wants to win the Derby and or the Breeder Cup Classic.. It is what it is nobody cares if they ruin a could be horse on the way to a shot of glory. If you have a decent colt and you have shot of being 1 of 20 in the gate that seems to be the only thing that matters.

Yeah but the problem is that people aren't realistic and this becomes throwing darts at the wall. If owners were a little more aggressive about running in ...well...every other race the sport would be a lot more interesting. The fact that nobody cares if they ruin horses on the path to the Derby has made the sport worse, not better especially considering that virtually all of the people doing the ruining never win it.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ms. Webber isnt selling .. Dynaformer gets plenty of dirt winners and to tag him as a turf only stallion is not correct. If you listened to Nathan Fox on ATR's on Friday he outlined Dynaformers success very well. That doesnt mean that Chuck is wrong about Brilliant Speed being a turfer just that Dynaformer can produce any type.

Chuck if she doesnt get excited about winning the Blue Grass and taking a shot in a few weeks whats the point of breeding and race?

Freddy, read what I wrote. I never tagged Dynaformer as only a turf stallion. I'm just frustrated that when he does get dirt males capable of running in G1s, they don't seem to end up intact for the breeding shed. Look at his stats, his G1 horses include a lot of turfers, and many dirt males end up getting gelded for one reason or another so when you do get a Perfect Drift level horse, the family tree goes nowhere. Part of that might have to do with the fact that Dynaformer's not known for being particularly nice. Does he tend to pass that on to colts (or fillies for that matter)? Then the biggest crossover non-gelding he gets, Barbaro, dies. It's like we can't catch a break. Dynever's in Saudi Arabia. At least he placed at G1 level. It may not always be fair to think his turf-oriented sons will give us only turf horses, but the perception will be that they'll sire turf/synthetic types so people breeding for dirt horses will be less likely to go to them. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy at some point.

[jms62]

I had this feeling and continue you to have it that this race was a conditioning effort for Santiva.. He had a bad trip yesterday and the jock shut him down when there was no room. I think they are taking the same path as Street Sense with him and will be looking for a big effort off the Synthetic start in the derby... The win at CD is also reminiiscent of Super Savers approach last year. Just thinking out loud.