How bad was Broker's Tip?

[golfer]

Was $1000 the bottom level for claimers in 1933? That seems like a lot of money back then.

[Linny]

The Dwyers were hard bettors and their horses worked for a living. Today they would be call "butchers" by the internet throngs and in fact they would be right. The Dwyers started out as butchers and were infamous for selling rancid meat to the Union Army in the Civil War.

[Indian Charlie]

He was doomed the moment he was born. Anything from there is going to wind up in a bad way.

[AeWingnut]

How many lengths would Wheelaway have not won by?

[richard burch]

well if brokers tip can win the derby,


why not tobys corner?

i'm not seeing much love for him.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

He was doomed the moment he was born. Anything from there is going to wind up in a bad way.

By the way - Rayon D' Or was the leading sire in the United States while standing stud at Presque Isle in the city of Erie in 1889. The old farm, Algeria, is connected to Presque Isle Park - and they now race BMX bikes on the old training track.

Tenny - whos famous match race with Salvator (possibly the greatest horse of the 1800's) - was bred and raised in Erie at Algeria. I believe he also raced for Algeria.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...DE405B8085F0D3


Trainer Glenn Wismer said he might bring Cozar to stand stud in Erie. That might eventually put an end to the cities 121 year drought without a champion sire standing here.

Rayon d'Or notably sired:

Tea Tray (b.1885) - won Monmouth Handicap (1890)

Gypsy Queen (b. 1886) - won Spinaway Stakes (1888), Gazelle Stakes (1889)

Tenny (b. 1886) - won Brooklyn Handicap (1890)

Chaos (b. 1887) - won the 1889 Futurity Stakes

Banquet (b. 1887) - on July 18, 1890, he set a new North American record record of 2:03.75 for a mile and a quarter on dirt. Won 1891 Monmouth Handicap, 1892 Manhattan Handicap

Liza (b. 1892) - won Swift Stakes (1894), Travers Stakes (1895)

Soufflé (b. 1893) - in 1896 she won the Kentucky Oaks, Latonia Oaks, and Jerome Handicap. Named the retrospective American Champion Three-Year-Old Filly

Don de Oro (b. 1894) - won Tremont Stakes (1896), Kenner Stakes (1897)

Octagon (b. 1894) - won Toboggan Handicap (1897, 1898), Withers Stakes (1897), Brooklyn Derby (1897). Sire of U.S. Racing Hall of Fame filly, Beldame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayon_d'Or

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Linny

The Dwyers were hard bettors and their horses worked for a living. Today they would be call "butchers" by the internet throngs and in fact they would be right. The Dwyers started out as butchers and were infamous for selling rancid meat to the Union Army in the Civil War.

Mike Dwyer - according to this column - had nothing left at the end...









From what I've read on how the bookmaking game went - obviously a much, much easier game to beat 100 years ago. Plunger Walton cleared $350,000 betting in just 2 years during the late 1800's.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by golfer

Was $1000 the bottom level for claimers in 1933? That seems like a lot of money back then.

At Churchill Downs during that meet - yes.

Here's a better idea of how slow that Derby was ... in all 3 cases .. only two routes were run on each card...

1914 winner Old Rosebud +41 over 8.5 furlong 1.5K claiming race

'33 winner Broker's Tip +8 points over nine furlong 1k-to-1.25K claiming race.

'41 winner Whirlaway +50 points over nine furlong 1k-to-1.25k claiming race.

In 1933 - the 1K-to-1.25K claimer went 1:53.80 - in 1941 it went 1:53.60 ... the '33 Derby went 2:06.80 and Whirlaway went 2:01.40 in his 8 length win over a very strong and deep Derby field.

Old Rosebud also won by 8 lengths over a strong field. It's hard to say if his race was better than Whirlaway's ... because of inflation - one would think $1,500 claimers in 1914 might be 9 points or more better than 1K-to-1.25K some 27 years later.