Maclean's Music (110 preliminary Beyer)

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by justindew

True. And when is the last time the Pa Derby produced a LOSING Beyer of 113.

Yep - you had an incredibly deep division of 3yo and older males that year ... the likes of which we haven't seen since ....

and yet ....

this laughable slowpoke was named Horse of the Year that year...

[Indian Charlie]

Yeah, but wasn't Skip Away something like 4 of 11 that year?

It's hard to give HOY to a horse that didn't even win half of its starts.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, but wasn't Skip Away something like 4 of 11 that year?

It's hard to give HOY to a horse that didn't even win half of its starts.

Yes - he won 4-for-11.

He finished the year with 8 figures of 115-to-125 in a row.

He won the Breeders Cup Classic "handily" by 6 lengths with a 120 Beyer at Hollywood Park ... in spite of Mike Smith making a crazy pre-mature move on the 1st turn.

Why punish a horse for a win/loss record - when those defeats are supreme performances against outstanding competition?

Uncle Mo had a thousand times better case for Horse of the Year over Zenyatta - than Favorite Trick did over Skip Away.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes - he won 4-for-11.

He finished the year with 8 figures of 115-to-125 in a row.

He won the Breeders Cup Classic "handily" by 6 lengths with a 120 Beyer at Hollywood Park ... in spite of Mike Smith making a crazy pre-mature move on the 1st turn.

Why punish a horse for a win/loss record - when those defeats are supreme performances against outstanding competition?

Uncle Mo had a thousand times better case for Horse of the Year over Zenyatta - than Favorite Trick did over Skip Away.

Maybe they just like to give really big trophies these days to horses that manage to start 8 times in a year.

Looking at the last 2yo HOY prior to FT, Secretariat won HOY in a year featuring both Riva Ridge and Key to the Mint (KTTM got 3yo colt). Secretariat actually beat out 2yo filly La Prevoyante for the award (sort of, she still got some partial recognition there). What's your opinion of the viable HOY candidates in that year as compared to Secretariat? With not 1 but 2 2yos topping the ballots that year, it was a rather unusual situation. Looking at some of the other horses running that year, it's not like the 3yos were bums.

[blackthroatedwind]

Forest Music got a 105 in her debut....not a 107.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Forest Music got a 105 in her debut....not a 107.

Yep - I just went back and looked. Thanks.

That was off memory - as long winded and plentiful as my posts are - if I spelled names correctly and researched every last thing - I'd waste even more time than I already do.

In the words of every chick I've ever talked to on facebook "someday the Internet will burn in hell for its lies"

By the way - I looked at the 2003 BC Advanced edition PP's.

Here was Forest Music's entire worktab for her debut:

July 30th: 4f in 52 breezing - 9th best of 11 - at FAI
Aug 27th: 4f in 50 breezing from gate - 5th best of 10 - at FAI

MSW race on October 8th.

She had no works showing after that race. Considering that she was shipped cross country - to run in the Breeders Cup at Santa Anita on just 16 days rest ... I think it's entirely possible that she ran in a BC race with just 1 career start - and two career published works under her.

I'm guessing that had to be Mike Gill's call... Shuman can't be that foolish.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, but wasn't Skip Away something like 4 of 11 that year?

It's hard to give HOY to a horse that didn't even win half of its starts.

I wonder if history would have been different had Gentlemen not shipped to run in the Woodbine Mile that year.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

I wonder if history would have been different had Gentlemen not shipped to run in the Woodbine Mile that year.

Clearly Gentlemen was the best horse that year. He should have won HOY.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, but wasn't Skip Away something like 4 of 11 that year?

It's hard to give HOY to a horse that didn't even win half of its starts.

They gave it to Ferdinand in 1987 when it should have gone to Java Gold. Even Manila or Theatrical would have been a better choice than Ferdinand.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They gave it to Ferdinand in 1987 when it should have gone to Java Gold. Even Manila or Theatrical would have been a better choice than Ferdinand.

Yeah, and Alysheba would have been a bad choice, too, I suppose.

That essentially meaningless '87 Travers holds as much water for you as the Saratoga main track did that day.

All it proved was that the opportunistic Java Gold was a superior mudder relative to Alysheba and Bet Twice (you know, the two most battle tested and accomplished 3yos that year).

Not sure he deserved HOY for that.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yeah, and Alysheba would have been a bad choice, too, I suppose.

That essentially meaningless '87 Travers holds as much water for you as the Saratoga main track did that day.

All it proved was that the opportunistic Java Gold was a superior mudder relative to Alysheba and Bet Twice (you know, the two most battle tested and accomplished 3yos that year).

Not sure he deserved HOY for that.

I loved Java Gold....but he shouldn't have been HOY. While it was obviously Pat Day's fault he lost the JCGC, he still lost that race, and with it any legit claim to the award.

Just because you think a horse should have won an award, or was the best horse to race in a given year, doesn't mean it deserves the award.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I loved Java Gold....but he shouldn't have been HOY. While it was obviously Pat Day's fault he lost the JCGC, he still lost that race, and with it any legit claim to the award.

Just because you think a horse should have won an award, or was the best horse to race in a given year, doesn't mean it deserves the award.

Yeah, it's a shame he didn't come out as a 4yo to prove whether or not he was better than Alysheba. Not running in '88 and missing the Triple Crown leaves with him with an incomplete career. Judging by comments from Mack Miller, it seems that a lot of it was by design (anti-KY Derby, syndication concerns) rather than necessity.

Speaking of not running at 4, how dominant would Forty Niner have been in NY at 4 (at least until the Whitney) had he shown up? Even better if Seeking The Gold held up.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yeah, it's a shame he didn't come out as a 4yo to prove whether or not he was better than Alysheba. Not running in '88 and missing the Triple Crown leaves with him with an incomplete career. Judging by comments from Mack Miller, it seems that a lot of it was by design (anti-KY Derby, syndication concerns) rather than necessity.

Speaking of not running at 4, how dominant would Forty Niner have been in NY at 4 (at least until the Whitney) had he shown up? Even better if Seeking The Gold held up.

Forty Niner would have dominated, as you said, until Easy Goer started running in the big races for olders.

Seeking the Gold finishing in a three horse photo with Proper Reality and entrymate Dancing Spree in the 1989 Met was a sad moment.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just because you think a horse should have won an award, or was the best horse to race in a given year, doesn't mean it deserves the award.

Amen.