Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[geeker2]

Re: selling the power plants

Reality is that the Plants the state owns aren't worth much on the open market. They must be upgraded to new emission standards or converted to natural-gas from coal. The co-gen plant at the campuses and prisons need upgrading.

Bottom-line - Sell this crap as quick as possible and as soon as possible to anyone who is willing to buy it. The amount of money the State will have to invest will never be returned. Also these State run facilities are usually very inefficiently run by the State. It should be in the private sector with oversight by the state agencies. If the Koch Brothers are stupid enough to buy them - sell it to them quickly.

Walker maybe smarter than you think....

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Re: selling the power plants

Reality is that the Plants the state owns aren't worth much on the open market. They must be upgraded to new emission standards or converted to natural-gas from coal. The co-gen plant at the campuses and prisons need upgrading.

Bottom-line - Sell this crap as quick as possible and as soon as possible to anyone who is willing to buy it. The amount of money the State will have to invest will never be returned. Also these State run facilities are usually very inefficiently run by the State. It should be in the private sector with oversight by the state agencies. If the Koch Brothers are stupid enough to buy them - sell it to them quickly.

Walker maybe smarter than you think....

None of the above has anything to do with anything. The Legislative branch has control over who buys public property, soliciting bids or not, and for how much. Walker is trying to take that constitutional power away from the Legislative branch and put it with the Executive. Same with his trying to gain sole control over state medicaid/aid. The Legislature is charged by law with budgetary matters for the state, just like for the US Government it is the House.

Budgetary power is NOT a power the President, or the Governor, can simply grab because they want it.

The power plants, whether they need to be sold or not, has nothing to do with a Governor attempting an illegal power grab. The issue isn't "should the power plants be sold or not". The issue is, "To whom does the Wisconsin constitution give power to buy/sell state property?" The answer is NOT "the governor".

BTW: Newly-elected Governor Rick "My company stole billions from Medicare" Scott in Florida apparently sold two state-owned jets. Unfortunately, he didn't have the legal authority to do so. All hell is about to break loose over that down there. In between Legislators from both parties suing him for refusing the federal high-speed rail project the Legislature already approved. The Legislature maintains he didn't have the authority to capricously line-item veto a budget item already previously approved legally by the legislature and the previous governor. Governors cannot be dictators - no matter how much they want to be.

[Riot]

http://forums.abcnews.go.com/n/pfx/f...ics&tid=383140

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker did not campaign for office calling for the destruction of public unions, but a closer look at his past actions shows that he acted rashly toward union workers before, with disastrous and costly results.

In early 2010, when Walker was Milwaukee County Executive, he fired 26 union security guards who worked at the Milwaukee County Courthouse. They were public employees and were represented by a union, but he fired them anyway, in favor of hiring private security guards. The county board opposed Walker’s security-outsourcing move, but he pressed ahead with it anyway, claiming the action was needed due to a budget crisis, to help ameliorate a potential 2010 year-end deficit of around $7 million. After firing the guards, Walker hired private security contractor Wackenhut G4S to provide security services at the Courthouse, as well as two other venues in the county, under a $1.1 million contract.

Walker’s strategy of firing the union security guards to cope with a contrived “budget emergency” went awry. Just last month, on January 10, 2011, an arbitrator ruled that the county did not have a true budget crisis at the time Walker fired the guards, and county officials failed to give the union representing the guards a chance to propose alternative cost-saving measures before laying them off. The arbitrator also said the annual savings Walker claimed the county would realize from privatizing courthouse security was overstated.

The ruling ordered the county to immediately hire back the fired guards, with back pay, and unemployment compensation or wages from any new jobs subtracted. It also guaranteed the fired guards at least 180 days of work — the same amount of time that should have been given to the guards’ union to react to Walker’s plan to privatize.


This means that Walker’s last rash action toward the public’s employees cost the county plenty.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

http://forums.abcnews.go.com/n/pfx/f...ics&tid=383140

....history of 2 MoNTHS....you should write copy for a major metro paper!

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

None of the above has anything to do with anything. The Legislative branch has control over who buys public property, soliciting bids or not, and for how much. Walker is trying to take that constitutional power away from the Legislative branch and put it with the Executive. Same with his trying to gain sole control over state medicaid/aid. The Legislature is charged by law with budgetary matters for the state, just like for the US Government it is the House.

Budgetary power is NOT a power the President, or the Governor, can simply grab because they want it.

The power plants, whether they need to be sold or not, has nothing to do with a Governor attempting an illegal power grab. The issue isn't "should the power plants be sold or not". The issue is, "To whom does the Wisconsin constitution give power to buy/sell state property?" The answer is NOT "the governor".

BTW: Newly-elected Governor Rick "My company stole billions from Medicare" Scott in Florida apparently sold two state-owned jets. Unfortunately, he didn't have the legal authority to do so. All hell is about to break loose over that down there. In between Legislators from both parties suing him for refusing the federal high-speed rail project the Legislature already approved. The Legislature maintains he didn't have the authority to capricously line-item veto a budget item already previously approved legally by the legislature and the previous governor. Governors cannot be dictators - no matter how much they want to be.

Huh?

My point was valid - sell the power plants at all costs no matter who is in power. It is a good business decision and a waste of tax payer dollars not to.

I guess if the people elect their representatives and the representatives vote to change the previous laws - then that's how a democracy works.

If during the next election cycle if people don't like it - they can vote them out.

btw can you site any instances where the President of the US has over stepped his power over other branches of government? I think we all know Obama wouldn't do that - but I am sure Bush did

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Huh?
My point was valid - sell the power plants at all costs no matter who is in power. It is a good business decision and a waste of tax payer dollars not to.

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

That power currently, legally, is the legislature. As all budget items are.

Walker's bill tries to make it his own power, with no supervision. That's a really, really big deal, regarding the state Constitution and state law. It's not something that can be changed on the whim of one governor trying to acquire power. Nor should it be - you can't have a governor who just decides to sell of state assets such as land, buildings, etc at his pleasure. Those constitutional items controlling Wisconsin's government exist to protect the state. To prevent the changing of laws on a whim as you talk about.

For example, today Walker said he wanted the Democratic senators arrested on contempt charges. Thank goodness the Dems are legally protected from the whim of a Governor trying to use the police for his political advantage.

Some laws can indeed be changed on a whim, as the political parties change, but other basic freedoms and laws to protect everyone in the state equally cannot. Thankfully!

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

I don't know what "We" were talking about but "I" was talking about if the Power Plants should be sold or not.....

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

That power currently, legally, is the legislature. As all budget items are.

Walker's bill tries to make it his own power, with no supervision. That's a really, really big deal, regarding the state Constitution and state law. It's not something that can be changed on the whim of one governor trying to acquire power. Nor should it be - you can't have a governor who just decides to sell of state assets such as land, buildings, etc at his pleasure. Those constitutional items controlling Wisconsin's government exist to protect the state. To prevent the changing of laws on a whim as you talk about.

For example, today Walker said he wanted the Democratic senators arrested on contempt charges. Thank goodness the Dems are legally protected from the whim of a Governor trying to use the police for his political advantage.

Some laws can indeed be changed on a whim, as the political parties change, but other basic freedoms and laws to protect everyone in the state equally cannot. Thankfully!

This is straight from the bill:
Currently, this state owns and operates numerous heating, cooling, and power
plants that were constructed by the state to provide heating, cooling, and power to
state facilities. The Department of Administration (DOA) determines the method of
operation of these plants and may delegate this authority to any other state agency
that has managing authority for a plant. This bill permits DOA to sell or contract
for the operation of any such plant. The bill exempts such sales and contracts from
the requirement for approval of the Public Service Commission (PSC) that may
otherwise apply under current law. The bill provides that the net proceeds of any
sale, after retirement of any outstanding state debt and any necessary repayment of
federal financial assistance, is deposited in the budget stabilization fund. The bill
also allows DOA, at any time, to petition the PSC to regulate as a public utility any
person who purchases or contracts for the operation of any plant under the bill.
Under current law, the PSC has regulatory authority over public utilities, including
the authority to set rates for utility service.

Let's be real does Walker really have the power to do anything he wants with the power plants? or are there other departments etc that are involved. Please read the bill

[Riot]

[quote]

Originally Posted by wiphan

This is straight from the bill:

That is not bill (legal) language. Can you give the reference where you copied it from? I doubt that is indeed "straight from the bill". It sounds like an explaination, and could be explaination within the bill. It also sounds like a direct copy of what was proposed and not approved in 2007.

Who is in charge of the Department of Administration?

[Riot]

He campaigned for budget cuts and to fix the budget.

That's right. Walker never campaigned on busting unions.

Polls can say anything that you want them to say. ... They hold no value in my opinion

No. Some polls are very well done, and highly accurate. Others are not. One can't simply dismiss three polls, well done, that don't show what you'd like them to.

Did you listen to the entire call. If you did I feel bad for you because you simply can't hear.

It appears to be you that can't hear. Yes, I did, and yes, Walker is a liar. He clearly lied to the Democratic Senators. He is clearly saying he wanted the Dems to come back and he'd tell them he'd negotiate with them, but as soon as they came back they could gavel the session and even if they left, the session would still count and they could vote. He wanted to trick them.

Want to put some $ on it? I said I will give you 4-1 odds.

There's no point in that. Formal recall procedures (collection of signatures) have already begun against Walker and the Republican Senators eligible for recall (it varies, depending upon when they were elected, Walker's signature collection has to wait but people are committing to it, the websites are up and running collecting names and addresses of Wisconsinites, on Facebook, etc). There are a couple websites trying to start that up against the Dems, too.

We'll see what happpens, and who gets there first.

Your view is to leave things status quo and have the power continue to be with the unions and the democrats that are funded by the unions who keep driving the state farther in debt without any revenues.

No. I said I believed giving tax incentives, but not when you don't have the money to do so. How you got to the above out of there is crazy.

Businesses create tax revenues.

Yes, they do! Except in Wisconsin, where 2/3 of your businesses pay no corporate profit tax revenue.

State employees and teachers create no revenue. They are expenses.
When times are tough you cut your expenses and do what you can to increase your revenue.

But your Governor absolutely refuses to raise revenue = raise taxes. In fact, he just lowered your revenue by giving unfunded tax cuts. What in hell is he thinking!?

It is time government agencies start acting like a business.

Looks like Walker needs to go to business school, and take Economics 101.

No because in the long run if you create a good business climate, unemployment improves, state income and property tax revenue increases and everything works

That's right. But it has been proven over and over, in the past 60 years of our economy, that giving massive tax cuts to business does not work to do that. That's called "trickle down economics".

For example, the federal government. The Republican budget proposal, which does exactly that, if enacted, has been calculated to loose 700,000 jobs and decrease our gross domestic product by 2%, threatening the return of the recession.

Unlike most politicians Walker is taking the problem that will occur in the future and addressing it now.

Naw. He's just union busting. Bust the unions, bust the three major Democratic campaign contributors (the other 7 top ten national campaign contributors are Republican)

The Koch Brothers are billionaire businessmen who fund the Republican Governors Association (RGA), Americans for Prosperity, and one of the Tea Party organizations (they paid to bus counterprotesters to Wisconsin that second weekend)

It came out of this years RGA that a goal was to union bust. Why do you think all these Republican governors are doing it at the same time? The people that pay for their elections have told them to.

Well if we didn't protect bad teachers by being fired this may not be the case.

Wisconsin teachers are 28th in pay nationally, but 1st in getting high school kids to graduate college. You have a good bunch. You don't need to union bust to be able to fire bad teachers. You need to change the rules.