Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

First off, Scott Walker is not a liar. He campaigned on this,

Please quote where Walker campaigned on taking away the collective bargaining rights of public unions? A copy of an interview, a campaign platform?

He's a liar, as he said this was about the deficit, but during his telephone call with "fake Koch" he said it was indeed about union busting. He also lied to his Democratic Senators (see below)

The majority of people in our state believe in Scott Walker and believe he is doing the right thing.

Not according to the three polls I posted. Do you have any different information?

You view of him is completely inaccurate and fed by the liberal media and misguided polls you read.

No, my view is fed by seeing what Scott Walker says and does in Wisconsin, and reading the Wisconsin paper websites.

You may not like Scott Walker or his views but he is a man of his word period.

I've never met him. He seems very pleasant. It's his politics I don't like.

So far I've seen he's not a man of his word: he admitted during the Fake Koch call that yes, he told the Democratic Senators to return and he'd bargain with them, but that was a trick and a lie, they'd take the vote behind their backs. That makes Walker a liar in at least two ways.

You may think Walker will get recalled, but I will give you 4-1 odds that there will be a recall of a democratic senator before walker is ever recalled.

It will be interesting to watch!

Second, so your view is to not give tax breaks to corporations to do business in our state.

No, my view is not to give unpaid for incentives when the state is broke.

It doesn't make sense in your opinion to promote growth thru corporations and employers who spend $ in the state, create jobs, pay property tax, and payroll tax .

But your corporations do not pay corporate taxes. That's a huge funding loss that has increased over the past 30 years.

If the above works so well, how come Wisconsin is broke?

Why do you think it's better to make private citizens, the average middle class person, yourself, pay more to support these corporate tax incentives? You are willing to pay more state taxes, and have less teachers in your kids schools, so corporations can get tax breaks?

In your world you would rather see the corporations many who have fled the state already leave instead of providing incentives to stay.

No. I absolutely believe in incentives. When you have the wherewithal to give them.

You say they pay no taxes, correct? So the corporations do not pay property taxes on the buildings and land they own? They do not pay payroll taxes? The people they employee do not pay income taxes? They do not pay unemployment?

No. I said they pay no corporate taxes. How's that working out for Wisconsin, to not have that revenue?

You do not believe that there is a problem so thus your point of view. I get it again I disagree.

No. I think there is a budget problem in Wisconsin. I don't think it is a eminent disaster requiring the massive layoffs of teachers, and union busting.

I am sure that our schools are going to hell now because of this plan. No child will get a good education, etc. Get real! I have 2 small children, who most likely will attend public schools and I am not worried about this. Why are you? You do not live here and it doesn't affect you.

I worry because I benefit from your educated children. America is falling futher and further behind in the world in education. We suck. Your governor wants to cut 1/10 of your child's teachers, enlarge their classroom size, decrease their advanced placement and special programs, decrease science and math funding, and prevent your town from doing anything about it. I don't like big government takeovers.

Actually if you just approve the governor's repair bill all of these things will be just as they are today, because of the simple cost cutting measures that the local municipalities would soon have.

I see the above statement as pure propaganda unsupported by the facts.

They could actually shop for health insurance instead of being required to buy it from the teachers union plan. This would save millions of dollars, but since the democrats do not want this to happen yes people will be laid off. That is the democrats choice, not the republicans.

Wrong. No layoffs are needed. Layoffs are simply a nasty threat your governor is making, and blaming the Democratic Senators if he does it is just covering his ass.

Unlike you I believe Gov Walker's repair and budget are necessary for the state to move ahead and not become California, etc. If you create an environment to do business in everything else will take care of itself.

Again, how has those very same economic incentives worked out over the past 30 years in your state? Why is the state broke if that works?

Have you seen how Reaganomics and "trickle-down" economics has historically worked in this country? This isn't a new idea, it's an old one, with a proven performance level documented.

You also state that part of the legislature is compromise. Is there anything the Obama administration compromised on in 2008-2010?

Dear god yes. Health care, budget, war .... every single thing that came through the Senate

Elections have consequences. If you do not like what is going on vote the other way and encourage others to join you.

If the recall elections are held next April, we'll see.

Acting in childish manners as the democrats have since they do not have their way is not professional or responsible.

I've very glad the Dems froze the voting on this 144-page rush-attempted bill. Especially as what's in there has nothing to do with budgets or deficits.

Wiphan: do you support Gov. Walker being able to sell or lease your utility companies to anyone he wants, for whatever price he wants, with no legislative oversight? Yes or no?

Do you support Governor Walker taking away the power over Badgercare and medicaid in your state from the legislature, and making himself the only one in charge of determining qualifications and benefits? Yes or no?

Both the above are in that 144-page bill you like so much.

[geeker2]

Re: selling the power plants

Reality is that the Plants the state owns aren't worth much on the open market. They must be upgraded to new emission standards or converted to natural-gas from coal. The co-gen plant at the campuses and prisons need upgrading.

Bottom-line - Sell this crap as quick as possible and as soon as possible to anyone who is willing to buy it. The amount of money the State will have to invest will never be returned. Also these State run facilities are usually very inefficiently run by the State. It should be in the private sector with oversight by the state agencies. If the Koch Brothers are stupid enough to buy them - sell it to them quickly.

Walker maybe smarter than you think....

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Re: selling the power plants

Reality is that the Plants the state owns aren't worth much on the open market. They must be upgraded to new emission standards or converted to natural-gas from coal. The co-gen plant at the campuses and prisons need upgrading.

Bottom-line - Sell this crap as quick as possible and as soon as possible to anyone who is willing to buy it. The amount of money the State will have to invest will never be returned. Also these State run facilities are usually very inefficiently run by the State. It should be in the private sector with oversight by the state agencies. If the Koch Brothers are stupid enough to buy them - sell it to them quickly.

Walker maybe smarter than you think....

None of the above has anything to do with anything. The Legislative branch has control over who buys public property, soliciting bids or not, and for how much. Walker is trying to take that constitutional power away from the Legislative branch and put it with the Executive. Same with his trying to gain sole control over state medicaid/aid. The Legislature is charged by law with budgetary matters for the state, just like for the US Government it is the House.

Budgetary power is NOT a power the President, or the Governor, can simply grab because they want it.

The power plants, whether they need to be sold or not, has nothing to do with a Governor attempting an illegal power grab. The issue isn't "should the power plants be sold or not". The issue is, "To whom does the Wisconsin constitution give power to buy/sell state property?" The answer is NOT "the governor".

BTW: Newly-elected Governor Rick "My company stole billions from Medicare" Scott in Florida apparently sold two state-owned jets. Unfortunately, he didn't have the legal authority to do so. All hell is about to break loose over that down there. In between Legislators from both parties suing him for refusing the federal high-speed rail project the Legislature already approved. The Legislature maintains he didn't have the authority to capricously line-item veto a budget item already previously approved legally by the legislature and the previous governor. Governors cannot be dictators - no matter how much they want to be.

[Riot]

http://forums.abcnews.go.com/n/pfx/f...ics&tid=383140

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker did not campaign for office calling for the destruction of public unions, but a closer look at his past actions shows that he acted rashly toward union workers before, with disastrous and costly results.

In early 2010, when Walker was Milwaukee County Executive, he fired 26 union security guards who worked at the Milwaukee County Courthouse. They were public employees and were represented by a union, but he fired them anyway, in favor of hiring private security guards. The county board opposed Walker’s security-outsourcing move, but he pressed ahead with it anyway, claiming the action was needed due to a budget crisis, to help ameliorate a potential 2010 year-end deficit of around $7 million. After firing the guards, Walker hired private security contractor Wackenhut G4S to provide security services at the Courthouse, as well as two other venues in the county, under a $1.1 million contract.

Walker’s strategy of firing the union security guards to cope with a contrived “budget emergency” went awry. Just last month, on January 10, 2011, an arbitrator ruled that the county did not have a true budget crisis at the time Walker fired the guards, and county officials failed to give the union representing the guards a chance to propose alternative cost-saving measures before laying them off. The arbitrator also said the annual savings Walker claimed the county would realize from privatizing courthouse security was overstated.

The ruling ordered the county to immediately hire back the fired guards, with back pay, and unemployment compensation or wages from any new jobs subtracted. It also guaranteed the fired guards at least 180 days of work — the same amount of time that should have been given to the guards’ union to react to Walker’s plan to privatize.


This means that Walker’s last rash action toward the public’s employees cost the county plenty.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

http://forums.abcnews.go.com/n/pfx/f...ics&tid=383140

....history of 2 MoNTHS....you should write copy for a major metro paper!

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

None of the above has anything to do with anything. The Legislative branch has control over who buys public property, soliciting bids or not, and for how much. Walker is trying to take that constitutional power away from the Legislative branch and put it with the Executive. Same with his trying to gain sole control over state medicaid/aid. The Legislature is charged by law with budgetary matters for the state, just like for the US Government it is the House.

Budgetary power is NOT a power the President, or the Governor, can simply grab because they want it.

The power plants, whether they need to be sold or not, has nothing to do with a Governor attempting an illegal power grab. The issue isn't "should the power plants be sold or not". The issue is, "To whom does the Wisconsin constitution give power to buy/sell state property?" The answer is NOT "the governor".

BTW: Newly-elected Governor Rick "My company stole billions from Medicare" Scott in Florida apparently sold two state-owned jets. Unfortunately, he didn't have the legal authority to do so. All hell is about to break loose over that down there. In between Legislators from both parties suing him for refusing the federal high-speed rail project the Legislature already approved. The Legislature maintains he didn't have the authority to capricously line-item veto a budget item already previously approved legally by the legislature and the previous governor. Governors cannot be dictators - no matter how much they want to be.

Huh?

My point was valid - sell the power plants at all costs no matter who is in power. It is a good business decision and a waste of tax payer dollars not to.

I guess if the people elect their representatives and the representatives vote to change the previous laws - then that's how a democracy works.

If during the next election cycle if people don't like it - they can vote them out.

btw can you site any instances where the President of the US has over stepped his power over other branches of government? I think we all know Obama wouldn't do that - but I am sure Bush did

[Riot]

Originally Posted by geeker2

Huh?
My point was valid - sell the power plants at all costs no matter who is in power. It is a good business decision and a waste of tax payer dollars not to.

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

That power currently, legally, is the legislature. As all budget items are.

Walker's bill tries to make it his own power, with no supervision. That's a really, really big deal, regarding the state Constitution and state law. It's not something that can be changed on the whim of one governor trying to acquire power. Nor should it be - you can't have a governor who just decides to sell of state assets such as land, buildings, etc at his pleasure. Those constitutional items controlling Wisconsin's government exist to protect the state. To prevent the changing of laws on a whim as you talk about.

For example, today Walker said he wanted the Democratic senators arrested on contempt charges. Thank goodness the Dems are legally protected from the whim of a Governor trying to use the police for his political advantage.

Some laws can indeed be changed on a whim, as the political parties change, but other basic freedoms and laws to protect everyone in the state equally cannot. Thankfully!

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Riot

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

I don't know what "We" were talking about but "I" was talking about if the Power Plants should be sold or not.....

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

We are not talking about if the power plants should be sold or not. It is about who has the right, in your state, to sell them.

That power currently, legally, is the legislature. As all budget items are.

Walker's bill tries to make it his own power, with no supervision. That's a really, really big deal, regarding the state Constitution and state law. It's not something that can be changed on the whim of one governor trying to acquire power. Nor should it be - you can't have a governor who just decides to sell of state assets such as land, buildings, etc at his pleasure. Those constitutional items controlling Wisconsin's government exist to protect the state. To prevent the changing of laws on a whim as you talk about.

For example, today Walker said he wanted the Democratic senators arrested on contempt charges. Thank goodness the Dems are legally protected from the whim of a Governor trying to use the police for his political advantage.

Some laws can indeed be changed on a whim, as the political parties change, but other basic freedoms and laws to protect everyone in the state equally cannot. Thankfully!

This is straight from the bill:
Currently, this state owns and operates numerous heating, cooling, and power
plants that were constructed by the state to provide heating, cooling, and power to
state facilities. The Department of Administration (DOA) determines the method of
operation of these plants and may delegate this authority to any other state agency
that has managing authority for a plant. This bill permits DOA to sell or contract
for the operation of any such plant. The bill exempts such sales and contracts from
the requirement for approval of the Public Service Commission (PSC) that may
otherwise apply under current law. The bill provides that the net proceeds of any
sale, after retirement of any outstanding state debt and any necessary repayment of
federal financial assistance, is deposited in the budget stabilization fund. The bill
also allows DOA, at any time, to petition the PSC to regulate as a public utility any
person who purchases or contracts for the operation of any plant under the bill.
Under current law, the PSC has regulatory authority over public utilities, including
the authority to set rates for utility service.

Let's be real does Walker really have the power to do anything he wants with the power plants? or are there other departments etc that are involved. Please read the bill

[Riot]

[quote]

Originally Posted by wiphan

This is straight from the bill:

That is not bill (legal) language. Can you give the reference where you copied it from? I doubt that is indeed "straight from the bill". It sounds like an explaination, and could be explaination within the bill. It also sounds like a direct copy of what was proposed and not approved in 2007.

Who is in charge of the Department of Administration?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Please quote where Walker campaigned on taking away the collective bargaining rights of public unions? A copy of an interview, a campaign platform?

He's a liar, as he said this was about the deficit, but during his telephone call with "fake Koch" he said it was indeed about union busting. He also lied to his Democratic Senators (see below)

He campaigned for budget cuts and to fix the budget. He campaigned to do the opposite of what Jim Doyle did. You can't negotiate with the teachers union without gaining some of the control back to the people. Remember the teachers work for us. If you believe you can check past and recent history. Average time to negotiate a teachers contract 14 months. Recent actions from technical colleges who called emergency meetings and passed extensions prove they really don't want to work with walker

Not according to the three polls I posted. Do you have any different information?

Polls can say anything that you want them to say. It is the matter in which you ask the question and who you target. They hold no value in my opinion
No, my view is fed by seeing what Scott Walker says and does in Wisconsin, and reading the Wisconsin paper websites.

You mean the liberal Milwaukee Journal Sentinel or the Wisconsin State Journal or the Capital times. Yeah those are not biased at all:rolleyes:

I've never met him. He seems very pleasant. It's his politics I don't like.

So far I've seen he's not a man of his word: he admitted during the Fake Koch call that yes, he told the Democratic Senators to return and he'd bargain with them, but that was a trick and a lie, they'd take the vote behind their backs. That makes Walker a liar in at least two ways.

Did you listen to the entire call. If you did I feel bad for you because you simply can't hear. BTW- do you negotiate with a kidnapper in a hostage situation? What makes this any different
It will be interesting to watch!

Want to put some $ on it? I said I will give you 4-1 odds.

No, my view is not to give unpaid for incentives when the state is broke.

Your view is to leave things status quo and have the power continue to be with the unions and the democrats that are funded by the unions who keep driving the state farther in debt without any revenues. Businesses create tax revenues. State employees and teachers create no revenue. They are expenses. When times are tough you cut your expenses and do what you can to increase your revenue. It is time government agencies start acting like a business.
But your corporations do not pay corporate taxes. That's a huge funding loss that has increased over the past 30 years.

If the above works so well, how come Wisconsin is broke?

Because we have not been business friendly for years and because govenor Doyle stole money from many different funds for government entitlement programs and refused to deal with the problemsWhy do you think it's better to make private citizens, the average middle class person, yourself, pay more to support these corporate tax incentives? You are willing to pay more state taxes, and have less teachers in your kids schools, so corporations can get tax breaks?

No because in the long run if you create a good business climate, unemployment improves, state income and property tax revenue increases and everything works



No. I think there is a budget problem in Wisconsin. I don't think it is a eminent disaster requiring the massive layoffs of teachers, and union busting.

$3.6 billion is not a major issue
Unlike most politicians Walker is taking the problem that will occur in the future and addressing it now. I know this is a little progressive thinking for most people but it is absolutely the right thing to do. The american way of life is why do today what you can put off until tomorrow. Time to change that!

I worry because I benefit from your educated children. America is falling futher and further behind in the world in education. We suck. Your governor wants to cut 1/10 of your child's teachers, enlarge their classroom size, decrease their advanced placement and special programs, decrease science and math funding, and prevent your town from doing anything about it. I don't like big government takeovers.

Well if we didn't protect bad teachers by being fired this may not be the case. Once you are in the system for a certain period of time you can not be fired unless you commit a felony and even then the union would still fight for you to keep your job
Wrong. No layoffs are needed. Layoffs are simply a nasty threat your governor is making, and blaming the Democratic Senators if he does it is just covering his ass.

Really?

If the recall elections are held next April, we'll see.

Again want to wager?
I've very glad the Dems froze the voting on this 144-page rush-attempted bill. Especially as what's in there has nothing to do with budgets or deficits.

So you support the democrats actions whereas I think what they are doing is an injustice to the democratic process and the constituents that they represent. Just a differing point of view. Pretty soon "Dog the Bounty Hunter" is going to be going after them. There is no way it can end well for them.
Wiphan: do you support Gov. Walker being able to sell or lease your utility companies to anyone he wants, for whatever price he wants, with no legislative oversight? Yes or no?

The government does not own a single utility company in WI. I actually own part of Madison Gas and Electric. It is a publicly traded company. Look under the symbol MGEE in the stock exchange. Wisconsin Energy Company (WE energies) is traded under the symbol WEC

see above for my responses