Cliff Lee

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Bumgarner have more rings than Halladay, Oswalt, and Lee. Infinitely more. Thanks for making my point. So you are admitting the Giants as they stand have a better rotation currently. And you're stating Hamels is the Phils top starter simply because he has a "ring". The "rings" argument is always pretty silly I think.

The rings are all that matters.

He wasnt saying that the best rotation ever is based off rings. He was saying it doesnt matter if you have the best rotation ever if you dont win the rings. he's right.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

The rings are all that matters.

He wasnt saying that the best rotation ever is based off rings. He was saying it doesnt matter if you have the best rotation ever if you dont win the rings. he's right.

It's all good. Lee didn't win a ring in 2009 with the Phils, but he was certainly by far the best pitcher that post season and it's not even debatable. Just because he didn't win a "ring" that year doesn't diminish in my mind what he did. I still say that right now, a Giants fan can certainly argue that they currently have the best rotation in the NL even with the Phils signing of Lee. The old man of the Giants 4 is Sanchez at 28. 3 of the Phillies 4 are all over 30.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

It's all good. Lee didn't win a ring in 2009 with the Phils, but he was certainly by far the best pitcher that post season and it's not even debatable. Just because he didn't win a "ring" that year doesn't diminish in my mind what he did. I still say that right now, a Giants fan can certainly argue that they currently have the best rotation in the NL even with the Phils signing of Lee. The old man of the Giants 4 is Sanchez at 28. 3 of the Phillies 4 are all over 30.

when you root for a team, the only thing that matters is championships. I dont think that means individual accomplishments dont mean anything, they are nice. Obviously, because Halladay was stuck on the Blue Jays 95% of his career & didnt get a ring, doesnt mean that he hasnt had a HOF career to this point.

But I'd rather have a WS 2010 ring than a 2010 cy young award (Halladay)... as a fan.. any day. I would bet that Halladay would trade his award for a ring also.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

when you root for a team, the only thing that matters is championships. I dont think that means individual accomplishments dont mean anything, they are nice. Obviously, because Halladay was stuck on the Blue Jays 95% of his career & didnt get a ring, doesnt mean that he hasnt had a HOF career to this point.

But I'd rather have a WS 2010 ring than a 2010 cy young award (Halladay)... as a fan.. any day. I would bet that Halladay would trade his award for a ring also.

I'm a Cleveland fan. Championships? Really? I am thrilled Lee signed with Philly. Everything I read was that he was gonna take the most money, period. The union is not gonna be happy he did this, but I think it is outstanding he shoved it in NY's face. Outstanding.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I'm a Cleveland fan. Championships? Really? I am thrilled Lee signed with Philly. Everything I read was that he was gonna take the most money, period. The union is not gonna be happy he did this, but I think it is outstanding he shoved it in NY's face. Outstanding.

I'm a Philly sports fan who was born in 1983... I share your pain and praise a higher power for 2008.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I'm a Philly sports fan who was born in 1983... I share your pain and praise a higher power for 2008.

I was born long before you, and I'm old enough to remember the Broad Street Bullies (almost!), the '80 Phils, the early '80s Sixer team that won it all, so to me Phlly is a championship city machine comparitively!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

It's all good. Lee didn't win a ring in 2009 with the Phils, but he was certainly by far the best pitcher that post season and it's not even debatable. Just because he didn't win a "ring" that year doesn't diminish in my mind what he did. I still say that right now, a Giants fan can certainly argue that they currently have the best rotation in the NL even with the Phils signing of Lee. The old man of the Giants 4 is Sanchez at 28. 3 of the Phillies 4 are all over 30.

Halladay and Let Timmy Smoke are a wash

Lee > Cain ( I think Cain is way better than Sanchez)

Hamels & Oswalt > Sanchez and Bumgardner (sp?)


but Giants have a great rotation, and any of those guys can certainly shut down any team on any night... proven in the playoffs.

As for what rotation would be better in 2018? Yeah I'll go with Giants.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Halladay and Let Timmy Smoke are a wash

Lee > Cain ( I think Cain is way better than Sanchez)

Hamels & Oswalt > Sanchez and Bumgardner (sp?)


but Giants have a great rotation, and any of those guys can certainly shut down any team on any night... proven in the playoffs.

As for what rotation would be better in 2018? Yeah I'll go with Giants.

I'd take the Phils rotation without question, but the Giant fan has an argument. They had an under 2 ERA in September and still took it to the last day against the Padres last year. That's how bad the offense they carried was. And in postseason they did it very, very well. Sanchez was best in the league in hits per 9 innings last year. Bumgarner is intriguing.