Cliff Lee

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Come on, best ever? Better than any iteration of the 93-98 or so Braves? The early 70's Orioles? The '20's Yankees? I'll buy that it's the best rotation in baseball today, but ever? Not quite yet.

I didnt say it was the best ever... but it is up there with the best ever, at least at this point.

& yeah I think it compares quite well with the Braves in 93-98.

halladay is our maddux lee our glavine oswalt our smoltz

and yes.. they all compare quite favorably

Hamels > Steve Avery &/or Danny Neagle

We have four legit #1 starters. four players who could be #1 starters on Playoff Teams. a fourth starter who is a World Series MVP, and pitched as well as ANYONE in baseball after the All Star break last year.

we have four of the top 21 starting pitchers in baseball

WAR totals for the past 3 years combined:

Halladay: +21.5 (#1 in baseball)
Lee: +20.9 (#2 in baseball)
Hamels: +11.9 (#16 in baseball)
Oswalt: +11.2 (#21 in baseball)

dont forget Oswalt went 7-1 with a 1.74 ERA with the Phillies last year. Thats right, 1.74 ERA

[Antitrust32]

so yes... on paper I'll take my top 4 over the top 4 from any of the Braves 90's years. Cant comment on the 70 O's or 20 Yankees. There are probably better rotations out there. Ours, on paper right now, is the best in modern times.... if you look at the top 4. Obviously Kendrick or Vance Worley are kinda the 5th wheel.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

so yes... on paper I'll take my top 4 over the top 4 from any of the Braves 90's years. Cant comment on the 70 O's or 20 Yankees. There are probably better rotations out there. Ours, on paper right now, is the best in modern times.... if you look at the top 4. Obviously Kendrick or Vance Worley are kinda the 5th wheel.

P.S. - you're legitimately crazy if you'd take Lee, Halladay, and Oswalt/Hamels over Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux. Or a homer. Your choice.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

P.S. - you're legitimately crazy if you'd take Lee, Halladay, and Oswalt/Hamels over Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux. Or a homer. Your choice.

3 all stars compared to 4 all stars?


and its not Oswalt/Hamels. its Oswalt AND Hamels.


Maddux is slightly better than Halladay, but not by much at all.

Glavine and Lee match up very very well

as well as Oswalt and Smoltx careers.

Hamels is better than any #4 the braves had... and that is what makes this rotation top the braves.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

3 all stars compared to 4 all stars?


and its not Oswalt/Hamels. its Oswalt AND Hamels.


Maddux is slightly better than Halladay, but not by much at all.

Glavine and Lee match up very very well

as well as Oswalt and Smoltx careers.

Hamels is better than any #4 the braves had... and that is what makes this rotation top the braves.

AT their best you can compare the Phils current rotation to the Braves top 4. But career wise they aren't close at this point. Not even close. Maddux 355 wins, Glavine 305 wins, Smoltz 213 wins, 154 saves. And from 1991 to 1994 Steve Avery was 55-28. He didn't last long, but for 4 years he was great. He was also 5-3 in post season with an ERA under 3. Hamels last 4 years are 51-37 with 6-4 in post season 3.45 ERA. Avery's run of 4 good years top Hamels' last 4. The funny thing about history is people tend to forget it.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

AT their best you can compare the Phils current rotation to the Braves top 3. But career wise they aren't close at this point. Not even close. Maddux 355 wins, Glavine 305 wins, Smoltz 213 wins, 154 saves.

Ed Zachary. Those are three of maybe the top 5-10 pitchers in all of baseball over the last 20 years. I don't think the current Phillies rotation can make that claim save Roy Halladay.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Ed Zachary. Those are three of maybe the top 5-10 pitchers in all of baseball over the last 20 years. I don't think the current Phillies rotation can make that claim save Roy Halladay.

We have the #1 and #2 rated pitchers in baseball. 4 out of the top 21 starters in baseball. In their prime also!

All I smell around here is jealousy. Thats fine though, I understand.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

AT their best you can compare the Phils current rotation to the Braves top 4. But career wise they aren't close at this point. Not even close. Maddux 355 wins, Glavine 305 wins, Smoltz 213 wins, 154 saves. And from 1991 to 1994 Steve Avery was 55-28. He didn't last long, but for 4 years he was great. He was also 5-3 in post season with an ERA under 3. Hamels last 4 years are 51-37 with 6-4 in post season 3.45 ERA. Avery's run of 4 good years top Hamels' last 4. The funny thing about history is people tend to forget it.

lets compare career stats to men who are in the middle of their prime and have 5-7 years left in their career!

Hamels was miserable in 2009. that will do a funny thing to your stats. I'd take Hamels any day of the year over Steve Avery. Plus he's still a 26 year old kid! With a WS MVP!


funny thing you guys comparing career stats to people in the midst of their prime.