baseball moves

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jenroypa

Did I miss something? Did Barry Zito, Aaron Rowand and Edgar Renteria all decide to void their signings and give the $$ back? Giants payroll is in excess of $100 mill. and the 4 guys who carried them ( Lincecum, Cain, Wilson and Sanchez) make up less than 20 of that.

The point was that huge free agent signings didnt help the Giants win. As a matter of fact most of the big money contracts that they are paying did very little to help. Yes Zito had a good 1/2 of a season and Renteria played well in the World Series but they certainly didn't get their money's worth from those 3.

The Giants opening day payroll was 96 million.
18.5 went to Zito
12 went to Rowand
10 went to Renteria

So 40 million went to guys who were hardly better than replacement level players.

Do you think the Giants wish they werent on the hook to those two stiffs (Zito and Rowand) for the next 3 or 4 years? They won in spite of them and because they had a solid base of mostly homegrown pitching. Washington doesnt presently have that luxury.

[slotdirt]

The park they built for the Nats is fine, but the problem is that you still have the best ballpark in all of baseball like 45 miles away, so that kind of takes away from the novelty of the place. The second problem for the Nationals is that DC is such a transient place that virtually any team with half a fan base (Phillies, Mets, Cardinals, even the Tigers) almost always outnumber Nationals fans when they come to town.

Do I think the Werth signing was smart? Absolutely not. But in the absence of the club's future for at least next season, does it make sense from a marketing perspective? Absolutely.

[Bigsmc]

Benoit and Pena gone...

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/ml...ory?id=5898142

Crawford and Soriano next.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

The park they built for the Nats is fine, but the problem is that you still have the best ballpark in all of baseball like 45 miles away, so that kind of takes away from the novelty of the place. The second problem for the Nationals is that DC is such a transient place that virtually any team with half a fan base (Phillies, Mets, Cardinals, even the Tigers) almost always outnumber Nationals fans when they come to town.

Do I think the Werth signing was smart? Absolutely not. But in the absence of the club's future for at least next season, does it make sense from a marketing perspective? Absolutely.

I can't agree with your marketing take. Werth isn't a big name player. He just isn't. They arent getting a significant spike in attendance because of Jason Werth.

If they signed Jeter or Big Papi for 3 years I would say that it was done as a marketing move. But this is a 7 year, 126 million dollar contract for a good not great, fairly anonymous guy. If they signed him as a marketing move it is worse than if they signed him as a baseball move. In April Forbes estimated the entire net worth of the nationals at $378 million. Are you telling me Jason Werth is worth 1/3 of the value of your entire franchise? By any measure?

[slotdirt]

WHen your big name signings since the team moved here were guys like Jason Marquis and Cristian Guzman, Jayson Werth is a pretty huge name.

Cannon, trust me, nobody went to Nationals games last year unless Strasburg was pitching. If they can ink Lee, I bet he'd have a similar effect. I can see why they're doing what they're doing, though like you, I don't know how successful it will be in a town where the baseball team has already left twice in the last fifty years.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

WHen your big name signings since the team moved here were guys like Jason Marquis and Cristian Guzman, Jayson Werth is a pretty huge name.

Cannon, trust me, nobody went to Nationals games last year unless Strasburg was pitching. If they can ink Lee, I bet he'd have a similar effect. I can see why they're doing what they're doing, though like you, I don't know how successful it will be in a town where the baseball team has already left twice in the last fifty years.

I agree.....the Nats are looking for relevancy to their fan base. If the fans feel management is trying...they'll increase the crowds hopefully.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I agree.....the Nats are looking for relevancy to their fan base. If the fans feel management is trying...they'll increase the crowds hopefully.

Actually fans are pretty sharp. They will show up if the team is a winner. Signings like these usually ensure a team doesn't win for reasons already stated. You cant spend like this and succeed unless you are the yankees. And they have 1 title in 10 years. They will never be relevant signing a few big names and punting the rest.

My team the astros have made this mistake and it dooms them to nowheresville. They signed big name, getting older guys and it killed them. Carlos Lee was Jason Werth of a few years ago. They gave him a 6 year 100 million dollar deal and have regretted ever since. He now takes up 20% of their payroll and cant be moved. Tejada was acquired in a trade (where they gave up nothing, he was a salary dump) but his 15 million a year made him and Lee added to berkman and Oswalt almost 70% of a 100 million dollar payroll. Since McClane was an idiot who wouldnt rebuild despite an aging, decling team they won just enough games to be a semi-playoff contender but never really was good enough. They have drafted terribly which adds the the misery and part of the reason is ownership wouldnt pay above slot for players and wound up with lesser players than they should have.

[jenroypa]

There are those that would argue Ed Wade is the biggest problem in Houston, although they love him now on WIP.

Lee is using the Nats to get the 7th yr he wants from Texas or NY. Texteira did the same last yr. So they have to overpay. In this case it was length of service as the Phils supposedly offered just as much per yr for shorter period. Did I think it was a great signing- no. But lets look at it this way. Nats have what they believe are their top 3 rotation guys in Strassburg, J. Zimmerman and Storen. Zimmerman is 2nd yr of TJ surgery, Strassberg will be another yr. Their defense was one of the worst. LaRoche and Werth give them huge boosts defensively- which will lead to less unearned runs, lower pitch counts, and more importantly allow this young staff to have the confidence that they dont have to throw the perfect pitch, that the defense will make the play behind them.

This move is about preparing this team for 3 yrs when the Phils run ends. And if they are really throwing the $$ that everyone is reporting at Lee, then Lerner doesnt seem to be cash strapped at this time.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

WHen your big name signings since the team moved here were guys like Jason Marquis and Cristian Guzman, Jayson Werth is a pretty huge name.

Cannon, trust me, nobody went to Nationals games last year unless Strasburg was pitching. If they can ink Lee, I bet he'd have a similar effect. I can see why they're doing what they're doing, though like you, I don't know how successful it will be in a town where the baseball team has already left twice in the last fifty years.

I dont have a problem with Werth per se. I have a problem with 7 years.

If you want to create buzz sign Carlos Pena for 2 years and 25 million. He probably would have done that. Then you solve a area of weakness, get a 2nd tier star to promote and in 2 years from now hopefully some of your prospects will be major league ready and you can get another pick for Pena if he plays well.

Destroying your salary flexibility by signing creeping up on past their prime guys to long term, impossible to move if they go wrong contracts is a killer. Lee if signed may make 16 starts at Home. Can anyone really justify the amount of money that they will need to pay to get him for 16 starts? He proved in Seattle that he doesn't walk on water and wont make a bad team good. Signing these guys is folly because it will prevent them from addressing all the other issues they have unless they are prepared to double their current salary levels.