The real party of NO, the GOP, steps it up

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

The current GOP has no shame whatsoever. Why were you elected? Work on jobs? The economy? Pretend you believe in bipartisanship?

Nope - the GOP is just gonna do what Mitch McConnell promised, and what the GOP has been doing for the past two years: nothing at all

Told you they aren't big on negotiating. They like power plays, and Obama isn't man enough to take the heat ( and let them ruin the country.) If they're willing, he should let them ruin the country. Call their bluff. You'll see that he will give in. That's why they have these power plays (he never calls their bluff.) The only way he gets elected again is if he's willing to let them do damage. He needs to let that tax cut extension run out. I don't care if nothing passes. That needs to run out. Then, have a vote on extending the tax cut for those under 250k. Get them on record voting against that. See, he needs to take responsibility for keeping the wealthy from getting their extended tax break, and he needs to make it clear who is voting against the middle class keeping their tax break. Show the country exactly who's responsible for what. Otherwise, they'll just blame him for everything. Make it crystal clear who is for what. He gives in so much that many voters don't know there's a difference.

[Riot]

Told you they aren't big on negotiating. They like power plays, and Obama isn't man enough to take the heat ( and let them ruin the country.)

Obama has been bending over for the GOP in the name of "bipartisanship". He keeps getting up the ***, but still hasn't learned his lesson. Yesterday they have "the meeting", and less than 12 hours later the letter? They are laughing at him.

If they're willing, he should let them ruin the country. Call their bluff. You'll see that he will give in. That's why they have these power plays (he never calls their bluff.) The only way he gets elected again is if he's willing to let them do damage. He needs to let that tax cut extension run out. I don't care if nothing passes. That needs to run out. Then, have a vote on extending the tax cut for those under 250k. Get them on record voting against that.

That is happening tomorrow. All the Bush tax cuts from 2001 and 2003 will be allowed to expire as scheduled, and tax levels revert back to what they were under Clinton (remember little national debt and solid economy?)

Tomorrow is the vote (Reid is much stronger than Obama now). The vote is on extending the tax cut (creating a new one) for the middle class. 98% of people will not see a change in their taxes. The top 2% of income earners will get a tax cut up to $250K, but not an extra cut for amounts over that.

The GOP is being welcomed by the Senate to vote it down.
** Edit just read that Reid won't do his tomorrow, it will just be Pelosi in the House.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Told you they aren't big on negotiating. They like power plays, and Obama isn't man enough to take the heat ( and let them ruin the country.) If they're willing, he should let them ruin the country. Call their bluff. You'll see that he will give in. That's why they have these power plays (he never calls their bluff.) The only way he gets elected again is if he's willing to let them do damage. He needs to let that tax cut extension run out. I don't care if nothing passes. That needs to run out. Then, have a vote on extending the tax cut for those under 250k. Get them on record voting against that. See, he needs to take responsibility for keeping the wealthy from getting their extended tax break, and he needs to make it clear who is voting against the middle class keeping their tax break. Show the country exactly who's responsible for what. Otherwise, they'll just blame him for everything. Make it crystal clear who is for what. He gives in so much that many voters don't know there's a difference.

Yes because raising taxes on rich people solves everything...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yes because raising taxes on rich people solves everything...

Allowing some taxes on the income of those couples greater than $250K - which will affect only 2% of the population, and they get a tax break for income less than $250K - to go back to the normal Clinton-era levels, and additionally will cut $700 billion out of our deficit over the next 10 years - yeah, solves alot!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Allowing some taxes on the income of those couples greater than $250K - which will affect only 2% of the population, and they get a tax break for income less than $250K - to go back to the normal Clinton-era levels, and additionally will cut $700 billion out of our deficit over the next 10 years - yeah, solves alot!

No it wont. The idea that the economic impact of raising taxes operates in a vaccum is wrong.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

This could have been resolved months ago, except that the White House and Congressional Democrats insist that some taxes must be raised. Mr. Obama wants the lower rates to expire on incomes of $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. Dozens of Democrats revolted against that in the campaign, so the latest gambit, courtesy of New York Senator Chuck Schumer, would raise that threshold to $1 million.

Republicans shouldn't be suckered into raising taxes on anyone, especially not on small business job creators. The U.S. corporate tax rate of 39% (a combination of state average and federal rates) is already about 15 percentage points above the international average, and for the first time in a generation the personal rate of 41% would rise above the average of our overseas rivals. That's all before the 3.8% surtax on investment income arrives in 2013, courtesy of ObamaCare

Because most nations tax their companies at a business rate lower than the personal rate, the Tax Foundation says the Obama plan would mean that many Subchapter S corporations in the U.S. would pay "virtually the highest tax rates in the world on their business income." In other words, the after-tax rate of return on investment in the U.S. would fall relative to investing in Europe or Asia. This is an invitation to outsource more jobs. The U.S. should be cutting tax rates to become more competitive, as President Obama's deficit reduction commission and tax reform advisory panel have recommended.

About half the income taxed above $250,000 is business income, so small businesses get hammered from the Obama plan. Mr. Schumer argues that if the income threshold for higher taxes is raised to $1 million, Republicans will no longer be able to claim that this plan taxes small business income.

Not so. The Small Business Administration classifies a small business as an entity with fewer than 500 employees. The Schumer plan shifts the tax onto larger, more profitable firms from relatively smaller ones. But this still puts jobs at risk. A business with $1 million or $10 million of net income has many times more employees and does a lot more hiring than a business with, say, $60,000 of net income or one that is losing money.

The Tax Foundation estimates that of tax filers reporting income of more than $1 million a year, about 80% have business income and that more than 60% of millionaire income is either business or investment income. So about two of every three dollars raised would come directly out of business coffers—i.e., from the capital that businesses need to expand their operations

Tax payments by millionaire households more than doubled to $273 billion in 2007 from $132 billion after the tax rates were cut in 2003. The number of tax returns with $1 million or more in annual reported income doubled over that period thanks to the strong economic rebound. Tax payments by millionaires also increased dramatically after the Reagan and Kennedy tax rate reductions.

[Cannon Shell]

A counter argument to..well most of what Riot has posted lately...

except this one actually makes sense.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...317359202.html

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No it wont. The idea that the economic impact of raising taxes operates in a vaccum is wrong.

Yes, it will. That article is nice, but assumes much not in evidence.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, it will. That article is nice, but assumes much not in evidence.

Well actually it doesnt. The biggest joke of an assumption is that you can raise taxes on job creators and that it wont negatively effect jobs.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well actually it doesnt. The biggest joke of an assumption is that you can raise taxes on job creators and that it wont negatively effect jobs.

Job creators in where India, China, Vietnam, Brazil, where ever labor can be arbitraged? Your logic is based upon old-school economcis which do not exist in the 21st century. Lowering the taxes on job creators simply means more money into the pockets of the CEO's.. They will continue outsourcing and using H1B labor. These lost jobs actually are the consumers of their own or customers products.. It is a game of financial musical chairs and at the end those at the VERY VERY top will have theirs and the rest will fend for the crumbs. The race to the bottom continues.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yes because raising taxes on rich people solves everything...

It doesn't solve everything. The facts are that the rich have gotten richer, and the Middle Class has gotten poorer. The divide between the two is increasing. If it was the other way around, then, you'd be making a lot more sense.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It doesn't solve everything. The facts are that the rich have gotten richer, and the Middle Class has gotten poorer. The divide between the two is increasing. If it was the other way around, then, you'd be making a lot more sense.

The middle class isnt getting poorer. The Democrats are just lowering the value of Rich. the truth is that if people who make $250k are now considered rich then the rich are getting a lot poorer.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The middle class isnt getting poorer. The Democrats are just lowering the value of Rich. the truth is that if people who make $250k are now considered rich then the rich are getting a lot poorer.

Oh, do you think the republicans would agree to only extending the tax cut for those making $500k etc. a year? I don't think so. They care about the rich. No matter the ceiling, the fact is that they care most about the rich. This is a chance for the President to show the American people exactly that point. Hell, if he offers a 1 mil/ year ceiling, I don't think they'd agree to it. They care most about the rich, and that separation in ideology needs to be clear for the voters in 2012. The amount of American people that want to extend this for those over $250k? The percentage is in the 30's range. He needs those 60 some odd percent of the population to know exactly which party (more importantly which Presidential Candidate in 2012) agrees with them on this. Let the Republicans keep digging their grave..... Dumbo, please don't stop them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Oh, do you think the republicans would agree to only extending the tax cut for those making $500k etc. a year? I don't think so. They care about the rich. No matter the ceiling, the fact is that they care most about the rich. This is a chance for the President to show the American people exactly that point. Hell, if he offers a 1 mil/ year ceiling, I don't think they'd agree to it. They care most about the rich, and that separation in ideology needs to be clear for the voters in 2012. The amount of American people that want to extend this for those over $250k? The percentage is in the 30's range. He needs those 60 some odd percent of the population to know exactly which party (more importantly which Presidential Candidate in 2012) agrees with them on this. Let the Republicans keep digging their grave..... Dumbo, please don't stop them.

There is no use trying to talk sense to you and Riot because you just wont admit you dont know what you are talking about regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary of your point

[Riot]

[quote=Cannon Shell;729944]There is no use trying to talk sense to you and Riot because you just wont admit you dont know what you are talking about regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary of your point[/QUOTE

Your insults are no substitute for trying to debate with facts, although you apparently think so, but it does seem the only thing you can routinely come up with.

Try harder. Throw some of those "facts" out yourself (btw, "fact" isn't just something you think is true)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The middle class isnt getting poorer. The Democrats are just lowering the value of Rich. the truth is that if people who make $250k are now considered rich then the rich are getting a lot poorer.

The level of manipulation you are willing to go to is seemingly limitless. Someone making 250k is middle class? That's as manipulative as it gets. They ain't middle class. You can call them what you want. If you really care about them a lot, then, you can try to continue their tax break by cutting a deal with the president. I'm pretty sure he'd go up to at least $500k. He might go up to Shumer's 1 mil. Point is that I think you guys care the most about the people making millions a year. That's what this President needs to expose (if he really wants to run again.) What do you think the percentages are when you ask the American people if they want the tax cuts extended for people making over a million dollars a year? You really willing to go there? Well, if the guy gets smarter (I very much doubt this,) then that's where we will be headed in a couple weeks. My guess is the guy will extend them for everyone (for a limited time.) If your party didn't agree, then, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

The level of manipulation you are willing to go to is seemingly limitless. Someone making 250k is middle class? That's as manipulative as it gets. They ain't middle class. You can call them what you want. If you really care about them a lot, then, you can try to continue their tax break by cutting a deal with the president. I'm pretty sure he'd go up to at least $500k. He might go up to Shumer's 1 mil. Point is that I think you guys care the most about the people making millions a year. That's what this President needs to expose (if he really wants to run again.) What do you think the percentages are when you ask the American people if they want the tax cuts extended for people making over a million dollars a year? You really willing to go there? Well, if the guy gets smarter (I very much doubt this,) then that's where we will be headed in a couple weeks. My guess is the guy will extend them for everyone (for a limited time.) If your party didn't agree, then, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

is it individuals who make 250k or more? or couples who make 250k or more jointly?

If its the latter... that is definately middle class.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

is it individuals who make 250k or more? or couples who make 250k or more jointly?

If its the latter... that is definately middle class.

It is families. In some parts of the country that is barely middle class. Frisco, NYC, Boston, most of Jersey.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

The level of manipulation you are willing to go to is seemingly limitless. Someone making 250k is middle class? That's as manipulative as it gets. They ain't middle class. You can call them what you want. If you really care about them a lot, then, you can try to continue their tax break by cutting a deal with the president. I'm pretty sure he'd go up to at least $500k. He might go up to Shumer's 1 mil. Point is that I think you guys care the most about the people making millions a year. That's what this President needs to expose (if he really wants to run again.) What do you think the percentages are when you ask the American people if they want the tax cuts extended for people making over a million dollars a year? You really willing to go there? Well, if the guy gets smarter (I very much doubt this,) then that's where we will be headed in a couple weeks. My guess is the guy will extend them for everyone (for a limited time.) If your party didn't agree, then, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

You live in LA and think 250k a year (pretax by the way) is rich? I guess you dont get out much. Let me ask you a question since you are so much for equality. Why should people who earn good salaries or create jobs via investment in small business have their taxes increased when everyone elses arent? They already pay a higher percentage than you. They already make more of a contribution than you. Why the discrimination?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You live in LA and think 250k a year (pretax by the way) is rich? I guess you dont get out much. Let me ask you a question since you are so much for equality. Why should people who earn good salaries or create jobs via investment in small business have their taxes increased when everyone elses arent? They already pay a higher percentage than you. They already make more of a contribution than you. Why the discrimination?

Like I said, I was forced to use a Vet (it's illegal not to.) He charged over $1000 for keeping the dog about 7-8 hours. Fk him. Son Bitch can pay his tax. Goes for all these people that fix the market to make it illegal not to use them. Fk them. You act like they care about the common person with a problem. Bullshyt. They care about that plastic in ya wallet. I can't think of more deserving people to have their taxes raised.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The middle class isnt getting poorer. The Democrats are just lowering the value of Rich.

I laughed.