Best horses of the 1980's by division

[Indian Charlie]

A good case could be made for Althea as a 3yo filly as well.

[Indian Charlie]

Older male, Greinton most certainly was a better horse than Ferdinand. I'd say the same for Precisionist as well.

On pure raw talent, I'd put Swear in the 2yos.

[DaTruth]

I would put Java Gold above Spend A Buck. Estrapade should also be given consideration.

[keithting]

You definitely seem to have done your homework on this list - though I can't argue with your list of older male horses - I dislike the fact that Winter's Tale or Fit to Fight did not make it. Though there speed figures might not be as high, I held them in that high a regard.

Also, I always thought that Groovy was slightly over-rated...

I'd take Shimatoree or Cure the Blues in a match race at 6 furlongs any day of the week.

Good stuff though....

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by keithting

You definitely seem to have done your homework on this list - though I can't argue with your list of older male horses - I dislike the fact that Winter's Tale or Fit to Fight did not make it. Though there speed figures might not be as high, I held them in that high a regard.

Also, I always thought that Groovy was slightly over-rated...

I'd take Shimatoree or Cure the Blues in a match race at 6 furlongs any day of the week.

Good stuff though....

At 6 furlongs I would take Jones Time Machine.

At 7 furlongs A Phenomenon

[Cannon Shell]

While the 4 turf fillies all obviously belong, April Run is a forgotten filly who was tremendous in her US starts. Her connections almost never bothered to run against fillies.

Also forgotten is the 3 yo campaign of filly De La Rose who lost at least twice because of poor rides. After a sluggish start of the season on the dirt in FL, she just missed to her stable mate in the KY Oaks. Once switched to the turf she won an alw over boys easily, the Saranac(G2) (then run at Belmont) over boys by 6, the Long Branch (gr3)(then run on turf)by 8, followed by a debacle in the CCA, then a bad ride 2nd against colts in the Lexington (gr2). She then beat older mares in the Diana, ran 2nd in the Flower Bowl with another bad ride, won an overnight stakes, the Athenia(gr3) easily, the EP Taylor over older mares handily and finished up the season with a win in the Hollywood derby(Gr1) over colts again.

Sunshine Forever's three year old season was great but he gets forgotten because he stunk as a 4 yo and as a sire.
As a 3 yo he:
Broke his maiden on April 25th
won an allowance race
ran 2nd in the Saranac (Gr2) to Posen with a troubled trip
won another allowance race
Won the Hill Prince (Gr 3)by 6
Won the Lexington (gr2)
Ran 2nd to olders in the Sword Dancer (gr1)
Ran 3rd in the AP million (gr1) (at Woodbine)
Won the Man O War (gr1) over olders (gr1)
Won the Turf Classic (gr1) over olders by 4
Won the DC International over olders (gr1)
Ran 2nd beaten less than a length by Great Communicator in the BC Turf.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Older male, Greinton most certainly was a better horse than Ferdinand. I'd say the same for Precisionist as well.

On pure raw talent, I'd put Swear in the 2yos.

I agree with you about Greinton and Precisionist. I think they were both much better horses than Ferdinand.

And what about John Henry? Even though he ran more often on the grass, he was just as good on the dirt as the grass. He was a much better horse than Ferdinand.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with you about Greinton and Precisionist. I think they were both much better horses than Ferdinand.

And what about John Henry? Even though he ran more often on the grass, he was just as good on the dirt as the grass. He was a much better horse than Ferdinand.

Yep.

Ferdinand is one of those horses that is historically underrated, but yeah, there were better ones in the 80's than him.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

And what about John Henry? Even though he ran more often on the grass, he was just as good on the dirt as the grass. He was a much better horse than Ferdinand.

I don't agree at all that John Henry was just as good on dirt as he was on grass.

Here's John Henry's career on dirt in stakes races - races from most recent on:

Hollywood Gold Cup: 2nd by 2

Santa Anita Handicap: 5th by 8

Jockey Club Gold Cup: 5th by 7

Meadowlands Cup: 3rd by 6

Santa Anita Handicap: 2nd by a nose - placed 1st through DQ

Jockey Club Gold Cup: 1st by a head over Peat Moss

Hollywood Gold Cup: 4th by 3

Santa Anita Handicap: 1st by 1 over King Go Go

Jockey Club Gold Cup: 2nd by 5.5

San Marcos Stakes: 1st by 2.5 over El Fantastico

Capital City Handicap: 4th by 2 (33K stake at Penn National)

Mass Cap: 10th by 8.5

I think John Henry was clearly a better turf horse. At age 9, he won the final six turf races of his career - all major turf races.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't agree at all that John Henry was just as good on dirt as he was on grass.

Here's John Henry's career on dirt in stakes races - races from most recent on:

Hollywood Gold Cup: 2nd by 2

Santa Anita Handicap: 5th by 8

Jockey Club Gold Cup: 5th by 7

Meadowlands Cup: 3rd by 6

Santa Anita Handicap: 2nd by a nose - placed 1st through DQ

Jockey Club Gold Cup: 1st by a head over Peat Moss

Hollywood Gold Cup: 4th by 3

Santa Anita Handicap: 1st by 1 over King Go Go

Jockey Club Gold Cup: 2nd by 5.5

San Marcos Stakes: 1st by 2.5 over El Fantastico

Capital City Handicap: 4th by 2 (33K stake at Penn National)

Mass Cap: 10th by 8.5

I think John Henry was clearly a better turf horse. At age 9, he won the final six turf races of his career - all major turf races.

Looking at the stats, I think you are right. It was so long ago. I remembered him winning the SA Handicap a couple of times. He was my favorite horse at the time. I remember him winning a lot of big races on the dirt.

Are you sure he ran 2nd in the Jockey Club Gold Cup? At pedigreequery.com, it shows that he won that race. It was so long ago, I can't remember whether he won it or ran 2nd. I think he won it but I'm not sure.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Looking at the stats, I think you are right. It was so long ago. I remembered him winning the SA Handicap a couple of times. He was my favorite horse at the time. I remember him winning a lot of big races on the dirt.

Are you sure he ran 2nd in the Jockey Club Gold Cup? At pedigreequery.com, it shows that he won that race. It was so long ago, I can't remember whether he won it or ran 2nd. I think he won it but I'm not sure.

Maybe you should look at the list again.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Maybe you should look at the list again.

I see it now. He had a win and a 2nd in the JCGC.