Why retire her?

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

You are showing some semblence of sanity here dala which you often do (despite your abuse of me in other locales!!).

I posted this earlier and got no replies which is not surprising. If you knew nothing of the dancing that the horse did and just said 10 years ago knowing nothing of synthetics, here you will have a horse who will win her first 19 races. She will be the first mare to run in 2 BC Classics. She will be the only mare to win a BC Classic, she will be the only mare to finish 2nd in a BC Classic and the only loss of her career would be a very close photo loss as a 6 yr old mare in her last race of her career in her 2nd consecutive Bc Classic. What would we think of that horse??

Yeah, we all wanted more from her schedule, but really what would we think if someone gave us this scenario 10 years ago??

She would have raced other top horses during her streak, because they would have shipped out to Cali to race against her on a natural dirt surface. So if she was still undefeated, it would have been an incredible feat and I'm sure she would have been applauded for it.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

She would have raced other top horses during her streak, because they would have shipped out to Cali to race against her on a natural dirt surface. So if she was still undefeated, it would have been an incredible feat and I'm sure she would have been applauded for it.

Yes, applauded for it and an incredible feat. Zenyatta didn't put synthetics in Cal nor did her connections. My only point is that it still is an incredible feat and she should be certainly applauded for it more than I read on here. That's it.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Yes, applauded for it and an incredible feat. Zenyatta didn't put synthetics in Cal nor did her connections. My only point is that it still is an incredible feat and she should be certainly applauded for it more than I read on here. That's it.

Oh give me a break. She's applauded plenty. Trying to talk some reason into people who want to make her more than she is isn't the same as ignoring her achievements.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Oh give me a break. She's applauded plenty. Trying to talk some reason into people who want to make her more than she is isn't the same as ignoring her achievements.

People here take it too far in both directions. I honestly don't read everything in the Paddock section, but have a ton of posters readily proclaimed her the greatest of all time ever??

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

People here take it too far in both directions. I honestly don't read everything in the Paddock section, but have a ton of posters readily proclaimed her the greatest of all time ever??

Vic called her the greatest female ever yesterday. Without hesitation. What do you think he would've called her if she won? The hyperbole has been nonstop all year.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Vic called her the greatest female ever yesterday. Without hesitation. What do you think he would've called her if she won? The hyperbole has been nonstop all year.

The GHOAT.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Vic called her the greatest female ever yesterday. Without hesitation. What do you think he would've called her if she won? The hyperbole has been nonstop all year.

No one can know any of that. My best guess is you could certainly safely put her top 10 to 15 female without hesitation or is that getting too far out there?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

No one can know any of that. My best guess is you could certainly safely put her top 10 to 15 female without hesitation or is that getting too far out there?

But that's not what he said, is it? Calling her top 10 or 15 is entirely different than calling her the best.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

No one can know any of that. My best guess is you could certainly safely put her top 10 to 15 female without hesitation or is that getting too far out there?

I can think of one crop of three year old fillies that had about five or six that were better than Zenyatta.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

No one can know any of that. My best guess is you could certainly safely put her top 10 to 15 female without hesitation or is that getting too far out there?

I agree. top 15 female. Not in the top 100 of both genders though.

She ran a great race Saturday.. I gained more respect for that race than 18 of her 19 previous.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Yes, applauded for it and an incredible feat. Zenyatta didn't put synthetics in Cal nor did her connections. My only point is that it still is an incredible feat and she should be certainly applauded for it more than I read on here. That's it.

No they didn't create them, but they didn't go out of their way to take on top class horses away from them. That's the beef almost everyone has. How do you measure a horse's real talents, when she continues to run against most of the same horses on an unperferred surface of many top horses? It's a shame, she ran big yesterday. Makes you think that they should have traveled with more often and then alot of these arguements would have been put to bed a long time ago.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

No they didn't create them, but they didn't go out of their way to take on top class horses away from them. That's the beef almost everyone has. How do you measure a horse's real talents, when she continues to run against most of the same horses on an unperferred surface of many top horses? It's a shame, she ran big yesterday. Makes you think that they should have traveled with more often and then alot of these arguements would have been put to bed a long time ago.

Yes. That's a bad feature of the BC. Not just Zenyatta people play it that way. I mean Blame only ran 5 races this year and also had to win the BC Classic to be considered for HOY. Despite his foster and Whitney wins, he too needed this race.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

No they didn't create them, but they didn't go out of their way to take on top class horses away from them. That's the beef almost everyone has. How do you measure a horse's real talents, when she continues to run against most of the same horses on an unperferred surface of many top horses? It's a shame, she ran big yesterday. Makes you think that they should have traveled with more often and then alot of these arguements would have been put to bed a long time ago.

I think part of this has to do with timing. It could very well be that she was a victim of the synthetic era just as much as it seems she was a beneficiary of it.

If BC 2008 and/or 2009 had been at Churchill as opposed to Santa Anita, might she have proven her point? If last year's BC was at churchill downs, might her connections been a little more "aggressive" in their campaigning? And if it was at churchill last year, what horse was going to beat her based on what we saw yesterday and the form she showed last year? Again, I know that this is speculation.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I think part of this has to do with timing. It could very well be that she was a victim of the synthetic era just as much as it seems she was a beneficiary of it.

If BC 2008 and/or 2009 had been at Churchill as opposed to Santa Anita, might she have proven her point? If last year's BC was at churchill downs, might her connections been a little more "aggressive" in their campaigning? And if it was at churchill last year, what horse was going to beat her based on what we saw yesterday and the form she showed last year? Again, I know that this is speculation.

We can only pretend to know any answers to these.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I think part of this has to do with timing. It could very well be that she was a victim of the synthetic era just as much as it seems she was a beneficiary of it.

If BC 2008 and/or 2009 had been at Churchill as opposed to Santa Anita, might she have proven her point? If last year's BC was at churchill downs, might her connections been a little more "aggressive" in their campaigning? And if it was at churchill last year, what horse was going to beat her based on what we saw yesterday and the form she showed last year? Again, I know that this is speculation.

I think she was a victim of her connections that for certain reasons didn't want to ship her across the country. She would have been a force on the dirt as well and it's a shame that she was never given other opportunites to prove how good she was by racing against other horses, then against most of the creampuffs that she continued to beat on the Cali circuit (BC 09 aside, even though that wasn't a tremendous bunch either).

[Princess Doreen]

I don't have an opinion one way or another. But, I do think the Moss's may be considering Dubai. I believe they are desperate for Zenyatta to recoup the little bit of prestige she may have lost yesterday. However, another loss would send Jerry Moss and Mike Smith straight to the looney bin.