Obama's support for Ground Zero Mosque

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I'm not pretending that the site is not more likely to be attacked because of where it is. It certainly is, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to freely exercise their religion wherever they see fit without fear of being attacked. Mosques are targets in other parts of the country -- and they're only attacked because people commit crimes against them.

It doesn't matter one ounce where it is. If people don't act like criminals, then it won't get attacked -- that's the end of the story. Potential victims of crimes are not the ones responsible for making sure that they don't become victims of crimes. Do you know why crimes happen? Because criminals commit them. Period. No amount of emotion based on location or past events absolves criminals of that responsibility, and the people building in this location are not, and should not, be responsible for those who may commit crimes against them.

On one hand you say that the site IS more likely to be attacked then you say it won't get attacked unless people don't act like criminals? Well what if you were the business next store? How would you feel then knowing that the site next to you IS more likely to be attacked meaning that you are in greater danger through no fault of your own.

Once again we aren't advocating taking away any freedoms from these people but are showing concern for the other citizens of the area who are now at more risk because of the choice of location. Does that mean we should force them to move or stop them from building or sympathize with those that would do them harm? No. But assuming that anyone who believes that the people building the mosque have made a poor choice of a location doesn't mean we are racist or insensitive. Just trying to use common sense.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

On one hand you say that the site IS more likely to be attacked then you say it won't get attacked unless people don't act like criminals? Well what if you were the business next store? How would you feel then knowing that the site next to you IS more likely to be attacked meaning that you are in greater danger through no fault of your own.

Once again we aren't advocating taking away any freedoms from these people but are showing concern for the other citizens of the area who are now at more risk because of the choice of location. Does that mean we should force them to move or stop them from building or sympathize with those that would do them harm? No. But assuming that anyone who believes that the people building the mosque have made a poor choice of a location doesn't mean we are racist or insensitive. Just trying to use common sense.

It's more likely to be attacked because criminals will be criminals and there is an anti-Muslim fear/hatred that lots of people have - maybe not you, but the long list of mosques that get attacked all over the place prove over and over that location is not why these places get attacked, but because people hate Muslims. If people can't control themselves and their fear and emotions and desire to lash out uncontrollably against people who didn't commit 9/11 for what happened on 9/11, then that's their problem. If that increases the risk of attack, then that's still their fault, not the fault of the people building the mosque wherever they choose, with the support from the community council that voted 29-1 to approve it.

If I'm the business next door, then I would hope that hoodlum criminals don't commit crimes in my neighborhood, and I'd certainly blame the people committing crimes rather than the victims of the crime for somehow inviting that crime upon themselves. It's still not their fault, and still not their responsibility to ensure that criminals who hate Muslims don't attack them.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's more likely to be attacked because criminals will be criminals and there is an anti-Muslim fear/hatred that lots of people have - maybe not you, but the long list of mosques that get attacked all over the place prove over and over that location is not why these places get attacked, but because people hate Muslims. If people can't control themselves and their fear and emotions and desire to lash out uncontrollably against people who didn't commit 9/11 for what happened on 9/11, then that's their problem. If that increases the risk of attack, then that's still their fault, not the fault of the people building the mosque wherever they choose, with the support from the community council that voted 29-1 to approve it.

If I'm the business next door, then I would hope that hoodlum criminals don't commit crimes in my neighborhood, and I'd certainly blame the people committing crimes rather than the victims of the crime for somehow inviting that crime upon themselves. It's still not their fault, and still not their responsibility to ensure that criminals who hate Muslims don't attack them.

If you choose to build in a location that will increase the likelyhood of the attack then you must share in the blame and responsibility if they occur. If I open up a store in a high crime area I cant just blame criminals for robbing me. I have to take some of the responsibility for being located in an area where there is a greater chance for a crime to be comitted, not because of the nature of my business but because of its location.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you choose to build in a location that will increase the likelyhood of the attack then you must share in the blame and responsibility if they occur. If I open up a store in a high crime area I cant just blame criminals for robbing me. I have to take some of the responsibility for being located in an area where there is a greater chance for a crime to be comitted, not because of the nature of my business but because of its location.

Apples and oranges there.

If you open up in a high-crime area, then you know you're running that risk.

If you open a mosque in an area without high crime, and that mosque becomes a target for crime simply because it's a mosque, and not because it's a dangerous area, that's not the same thing as opening it up in a high-crime area to begin with. That's people who can't control the fear/anger at Muslims and who hate Muslims committing crimes. There's a bit of a difference there, and then what that means is that Muslims are being coerced into not freely practicing their religion, which we all agree they have the right to do, with threat of harm, and you're basically continuing to say that that's kind of okay and that they should elect to not exercise that because some people who hate Muslims can't control themselves.

And the woman walking alone in a short skirt comment wasn't entirely rhetorical either, because that's basically what you're doing here -- is saying that the victims of a potential crime are going to share in the responsibility for what criminals do to them. Same idea. Whether a woman walking alone at night is wearing a short skirt or a parka and she gets raped, the only reason she got raped is because there was a rapist there who raped her. Period. If he doesn't commit the crime, then there is no crime, the responsibility is 100% on the criminal to NOT break the law, no matter how badly he wants to, no matter how badly he thinks that if she just used some "common sense" and didn't dress provocatively, it would've lessened her chances of being a victim, and NOT on the victim to somehow ensure that they don't become the victim of a crime.