Zenyatta to the Beldame after Saturday

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm not sure you're understanding me, young RHT. They don't run on dirt in California. Why would a dirt horse ship to run on something other than dirt?

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

Oh boy.

[slotdirt]

You know what I think is sad? That Rachel Alexandra, faults and all, has run at one fewer track this season (three) than Zenyatta has (four) in her entire career. How many top notch horses run 17 races and only manage to visit four different locales? Southern Image ran in as many places and that dang horse only started like eight times.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Oh boy.

This is not as far fetched as you may believe, there is a anti synth bias that exists, you know this. We know Beyer has struggled with synth figs where he had to go into a long explanation of adjusting them last year.

[slotdirt]

Dang right there's an anti-synth bias. I hate the crap. I hate watching races on it. I hate how it freezes in the winter and melts in the summer. This is freaking America. We run on dirt and when that doesn't work, we run on grass, and when that doesn't work, maybe try jumping over a couple of fences. But ground up sneakers and tires? That's just un-American.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by CSC

We know Beyer has struggled with synth figs where he had to go into a long explanation of adjusting them last year.

Not sure its Beyers fault.

What is he to do, use a projection system for every race? The surface does not yield times traditional to a parallel chart like dirt. Its very much like turf where his figures hold about the same water.

The bottom line is in general the very best grade 1 horses in Ca can compete with the best grade 1 horses in NY or Ky, just dont use the figures.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

This is not as far fetched as you may believe, there is a anti synth bias that exists, you know this. We know Beyer has struggled with synth figs where he had to go into a long explanation of adjusting them last year.

It's really far fetched and based on nothing.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

It's really far fetched and based on nothing.

Slotdirt just admitted he hates synth, but let's ignore that.

[slotdirt]

I think synthetics, on the whole, have not been good for racing in this country. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

Slotdirt just admitted he hates synth, but let's ignore that.

I must have missed the part where he said he hates it because Beyer was struggling with making figures for it.

I rarely if ever use figures when I handicap and I can't stand the "racing" over it either. One has nothing to do with the other.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Oh boy.

A waste of a response. If you want to bash me, at least do it with some sort of response to the subject.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

A waste of a response. If you want to bash me, at least do it with some sort of response to the subject.

Another waste of a response.

[Thunder Gulch]

I don't mind synthetics, but I wish everyone would recognize that is truly is a 3rd surface along with dirt and grass. Comparisons across the lines get blurred, so it's impossible to make definitive statements about ability which is what the Zenyatta crowd wants to ignore. A great runner and the best synthetic runner in 5 years, but there is no history beyond that to make any definitive statements. Right now, the history of racing in America is largely a history of dirt racing, and on dirt Zenyatta has proven very little with a couple of Oaklawn wins and a scratch (afraid of off track) at Churchill. Maybe we will look back in 50 years if all tracks are synthetic and say Zenyatta is the greatest, but that's a long way in the future.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So why is this acceptable? Synthetics are a part of the game, they run over synthetics at Keeneland, one could argue the best other then Toga.
Is it because people cant except change, or is it because Beyer people cant make figures the right way for synthetic races?

Its change

Our generation is fine with it, the old cranky people set in their ways just bitch and complain instead of educating themselves on it. It isn't like they can't just avoid it.

Bet you take a poll and people from 0-30 are fine with synthetics, people from 31-40 will be unfavored, and people 41+ the majority will hate it.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Scav

Its change

Our generation is fine with it, the old cranky people set in their ways just bitch and complain instead of educating themselves on it. It isn't like they can't just avoid it.

Bet you take a poll and people from 0-30 are fine with synthetics, people from 31-40 will be unfavored, and people 41+ the majority will hate it.

Dude, be serious for a second. Look at what Slotdirt is saying. The reason why dirt horses don't ship to California is the surface. That has nothing to do with people not accepting (or excepting) change. It's a third surface. Just like if the entire state if New York had only dirt races. You'd understand why the turf horses weren't shipping in to run.

Why people don't like synthetics for racing is an entirely different conversation.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Dude, be serious for a second. Look at what Slotdirt is saying. The reason why dirt horses don't ship to California is the surface. That has nothing to do with people not accepting (or excepting) change. It's a third surface. Just like if the entire state if New York had only dirt races. You'd understand why the turf horses weren't shipping in to run.

Why people don't like synthetics for racing is an entirely different conversation.

agree completely

though there is a perception that synthetic horses cant run on dirt and that synthetic horses are not fast, when its likely the opposite, most are being inhibited from running larger figures by synthetics.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Dude, be serious for a second. Look at what Slotdirt is saying. The reason why dirt horses don't ship to California is the surface. That has nothing to do with people not accepting (or excepting) change. It's a third surface. Just like if the entire state if New York had only dirt races. You'd understand why the turf horses weren't shipping in to run.

Why people don't like synthetics for racing is an entirely different conversation.

I agree, I wasn't paying attention.

I also agree with why they don't go to California.

I would run a dirt horse at Hollywood, but not the others.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Scav

I agree, I wasn't paying attention.

I also agree with why they don't go to California.

I would run a dirt horse at Hollywood, but not the others.

I did a quick scan of the 3 most prestigious races in So Cal, The Hollywood Gold Cup, The Pacific Classic and the Santa Anita Handicap, winners only. Only 2 eastern based horses have won any running of these races since 1995 Cigar and Skip Away before the sythetics age. If winners are any indication, the evidence does not show horses ship out west any more than they do now. Einstein shipped and won on rubber, so I see no difference they would ship out west more if it were dirt or atleast as it pertains to winners.

[slotdirt]

EInstein? You mean Einstein, the TURF horse?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by CSC

I did a quick scan of the 3 most prestigious races in So Cal, The Hollywood Gold Cup, The Pacific Classic and the Santa Anita Handicap, winners only. Only 2 eastern based horses have won any running of these races since 1995 Cigar and Skip Away before the sythetics age. If winners are any indication, the evidence does not show horses ship out west any more than they do now. Einstein shipped and won on rubber, so I see no difference or atleast as it pertains to winners.

Interesting that Zenyatta has spent nearly her entire career in Southern California and hasn't made a start in any of the "3 most prestigious races in So Cal..."