Beyer blasting NY racing on ATR

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I did? That's funny.

The one doing the reading into is you.

It was a conversation about alternative wagering concepts with special attention to exchange betting.

Come on Steve, I was born at night but not last night. I'd like others opinion that heard the segment. It was a great segment though and I continue to love the show even though you are a bigger homer than Phil Rizzuto

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jms62

Come on Steve, I was born at night but not last night. I'd like others opinion that heard the segment. It was a great segment though and I continue to love the show even though you are a bigger homer than Phil Rizzuto

A bigger homer about what?

It's remarkable that no one can have any discussion or try to offer any broad insights on a topic without immediate attempts to create polarizing divisions. It's frankly bizarre.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

A bigger homer about what?

It's remarkable that no one can have any discussion or try to offer any broad insights on a topic without immediate attempts to create polarizing divisions. It's frankly bizarre.

Nothing wrong with having a biasis which you do, why shouldnt you have a facv? Your opinion stems from your opinion that NY will change as soon as VLT's come on line and your feeling that this is a 1 off meet for NJ.. We all get it, NY will be monsta and MP will have a 30 mil model if that going forward..

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Nothing wrong with having a biasis which you do, why shouldnt you have a facv? Your opinion stems from your opinion that NY will change as soon as VLT's come on line and your feeling that this is a 1 off meet for NJ.. We all get it, NY will be monsta and MP will have a 30 mil model if that going forward..

Biasis Freddy?

[TouchOfGrey]

Originally Posted by Kasept

It's remarkable that no one can have any discussion or try to offer any broad insights on a topic without immediate attempts to create polarizing divisions. It's frankly bizarre.

Zenyatta!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Right now, It's pretty easy to "blast" what is passing as horse racing at every race track in the country except Monmouth Park and Evangeline.

[freddymo]

IMO Steve has tried very hard to protect the NYRA product, while not overly supporting the MP changes. We all (save Fatty) hope that NYRA's product returns to be the best betting opportunity in America but Fri-Sunday it isn't. MP is a better meet and it has attracted very good races to bet.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

IMO Steve has tried very hard to protect the NYRA product, while not overly supporting the MP changes. We all (save Fatty) hope that NYRA's product returns to be the best betting opportunity in America but Fri-Sunday it isn't. MP is a better meet and it has attracted very good races to bet.

Thanks for the interpretation Freddy. The meet is fun and the P5 is the best bet out there right now and I cap and play it every weekend. I promoted the New Jersey plan plenty upon introduction with several visits from Bobby Kulina and John Forbes. I talk about the Monmouth cards and stakes every week. But what is stunning in these odd exchanges about what the NJ program is supposed to be testing, is how reality has been utterly suspended. People talk about MTH right now as if this meet is an annual institution that is racing's greatest treasure. It isn't. It's a noble expirement carved out of desperation to see if there will be any future for racing in New Jersey.

Discussion of the Monmouth meet that fails to address its' complete and almost certain transience is 100% incomplete and pointless. While there's a ways to go and its' nice to have big fields, the reality is the handle on the cards isn't meeting the levels it needs to in order to come close to sustaining the concept. God forbid anyone try and introduce that reality to the proceedings... What should be the focus of the discussion is not some vapid NY v. NJ chest-thumping but what about MTH is working, what isn't and what level of racing dates and purse contributions make sense.

It took a full week for anyone to understand what the point was of the "$1,000,000 a day" thread, and clearly today's conversation with Beyer seems to be evading comprehension. I'm for ALL racing and am eager, and in fact desperate, to figure out what we need to do as an industry, as players, as owners, as fans, to stabilize and grow the game. I find ways to talk as encouragingly as possible about Magna, CDI, NYRA and every other entity in the game. It isn't as mundane as being defensive of NYRA at the expense of the NJSEA.

[freddymo]

The handle is beyond ANYONE's imagination its a teriffic success, assuming it continues it WILL have a ton of support from NJSEA and the State.. BTW support is = to money. The casino deal will evovle and the State will conjure up a way to find a paultry 15 or so mil to keep the recipe in place. The nay sayers including Crist and friends are looking to equate a handle to purse ratio vs. business/industry development. The State is committed to growing the industry even if includes subsidizing it wth dollars. It's called investing and it is my opinion NJ gets it. As long as the handles continues to elipsce even the most wild spectulations the State will stand behind NJ Racing and GIVE it money to grow.. This isnt NY

As for you supporting MP, of course you do you are an advocate of racing. Your Fav is NYRA and it comes across loud and clear even when some horrible racing is on tap daily at Belmont. Some of this stuff is just awful and frankly those are words that NEVER come out of your mouth there is always sometype of out of place spin. As advocate call it like it is a function of poor stock levels, MP, and crappy purses due to financial difficulties. Some of the current cards arent even Inner track quality never mind July in NY.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

People talk about MTH right now as if this meet is an annual institution that is racing's greatest treasure. It isn't.

So far this year it has been.

Originally Posted by Kasept

It's a noble expirement carved out of desperation to see if there will be any future for racing in New Jersey.

Who cares?

Originally Posted by Kasept

Discussion of the Monmouth meet that fails to address its' complete and almost certain transience is 100% incomplete and pointless.

This 2010 Monmouth meet is its own entity and should be judged that way. Who cares about anything else?

Management at a track like Presque Isle - where table games just started yesterday - would love to run a 25 day meet again instead of a 100 day meet.

They would gladly quickly give away the fortune the state requires them to give away in purses.. and be done with racing like that.

Total pipe dream that I just pulled out of my ass time .... but I'd love to see all of these miserable racinos work together and run shortened 20 to 25 day super meets for huge money.

Have Delaware give all their purses away in 20 racing days, Presque Isle give them all away in 20 racing days, Mountaineer give them all away in 25 racing days, Charles Town give them all away in 25 racing days, Indiana Downs 25 racing days, Hoosier 15 racing days, Prarie Meadows 25 days, Delta Downs 15 days, Sunland 20 days, Zia Park 15 days, Finger Lakes 20 days. Philly Park can be the place that goes heads up with Saratoga and Del Mar and run for six or seven weeks.

Let those 12 miserable casino tracks band together and form one year round super meet that would surely generate a blockbuster brand of racing for bettors.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Thanks for the interpretation Freddy. The meet is fun and the P5 is the best bet out there right now and I cap and play it every weekend. I promoted the New Jersey plan plenty upon introduction with several visits from Bobby Kulina and John Forbes. I talk about the Monmouth cards and stakes every week. But what is stunning in these odd exchanges about what the NJ program is supposed to be testing, is how reality has been utterly suspended. People talk about MTH right now as if this meet is an annual institution that is racing's greatest treasure. It isn't. It's a noble expirement carved out of desperation to see if there will be any future for racing in New Jersey.

Discussion of the Monmouth meet that fails to address its' complete and almost certain transience is 100% incomplete and pointless. While there's a ways to go and its' nice to have big fields, the reality is the handle on the cards isn't meeting the levels it needs to in order to come close to sustaining the concept. God forbid anyone try and introduce that reality to the proceedings... What should be the focus of the discussion is not some vapid NY v. NJ chest-thumping but what about MTH is working, what isn't and what level of racing dates and purse contributions make sense.

It took a full week for anyone to understand what the point was of the "$1,000,000 a day" thread, and clearly today's conversation with Beyer seems to be evading comprehension. I'm for ALL racing and am eager, and in fact desperate, to figure out what we need to do as an industry, as players, as owners, as fans, to stabilize and grow the game. I find ways to talk as encouragingly as possible about Magna, CDI, NYRA and every other entity in the game. It isn't as mundane as being defensive of NYRA at the expense of the NJSEA.

You're such a hater Steve.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Agreed. Have been trying to make several of the those points (in particular the handle needed to sustain) since Monmouth meet started but most of the threads end up being way too emotional and irrational. Its just business not sure why people have hard time understanding.

Please read Freddy's post. Your view is so myopic.. An industry is much more than the handle of a racetrack.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by jms62

Please read Freddy's post. Your view is so myopic.. An industry is much more than the handle of a racetrack.

Freddy knows I love him, so I know he won't take this the wrong way. But don't you think his view is pretty myopic?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by jms62

An industry is much more than the handle of a racetrack.

PID was up to its horse player friendly tricks tonight ... they sent the tellers home after the last race. If you want to bet Hollywood Park or anything else tonight, get a voucher.

The old OTB parlor, they would keep two tellers there until Balmoral's last race at 1AM ... and for one year even stayed open in the middle of the night while 2 or 3 true degen's stuck around and bet Australia without PP's or whatever the hell it was they were showing.

Greatest mystery in the world is how that place was never robbed. They had real dough in the money room, one senior citizen security guard who was hooked on scratch off lotto tickets sticking around and about four or five employees who valued life a million times more than the companys money. Most of the cameras didn't even work. You take a right out of the parking lot and you're on the Interstate. You take a left and you're onto Peach street which is loaded with malls and stores for two straight miles. Or you could drive past the Interstate and take the backroads if you know them. Probably the hardest place in the city to capture someone who recently escaped from and easiest spot to escape from.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Greatest mystery in the world is how that place was never robbed. They had real dough in the money room, one senior citizen security guard who was hooked on scratch off lotto tickets sticking around and about four or five employees who valued life a million times more than the companys money. Most of the cameras didn't even work. You take a right out of the parking lot and you're on the Interstate. You take a left and you're onto Peach street which is loaded with malls and stores for two straight miles. Or you could drive past the Interstate and take the backroads if you know them. Probably the hardest place in the city to capture someone who recently escaped from and easiest spot to escape from.

It sounds like you had a plan, so what happened? Did RHT agree to be the stick-up man, but then back out at the last second? You were expecting RHT to come to the getaway car with a bag of jingle, but instead all he brought was tomorrow's Form.

[herkhorse]

I just googled horse racing industry. Guess who was first in line?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

It sounds like you had a plan, so what happened? Did RHT agree to be the stick-up man, but then back out at the last second? You were expecting RHT to come to the getaway car with a bag of jingle, but instead all he brought was tomorrow's Form.

Uh, I would assure you that it would have been an easy five figure score and an almost 100% chance of clean escape with just about any two man team except RHT doing the deed and me doing the driving. That specific combo could screw up anything.

I worked there as a teller right after I turned 18. The tellers had it easy - betting on credit and covering shorts on payday was very much a common thing. They'd always have a BS story about some tale of woe mistake that left them short. And they never threatened employment until it became heavily abused.

It was a big sprawling OTB with 3 different very spacey rooms. Probably five times the size of the ones you'd see when you go into New York State. The cameras didn't work in the back dining room...but even in the other two rooms, no one cared what was going on. It was amazing the kind of stuff that could have been pulled that wasn't.

The short time I worked there, I'd tell the manager and other tellers that "I saw the mad bomber today! He was here! I talked to him! The Man, the myth, the legend!" ... some fictional person I made up that I swore to them would bet 300K or more to show on a horse when the right situation comes up. And he was scouting things out right here on the weekends. How cool was that?

After I was gone, I guess my fictional guy did show up for a teller I was friends with. In 2003, Medaglia D' Oro just won his 4yo debut with a 119 Beyer in his prior start .. he was in the Oaklawn Park Handicap against 4 hopeless other horses, none of which had any pace to bother him. One of the all-time great mismatches on paper and they didn't cancel show betting.

He paid $2.20 to win $2.20 to place and $2.20 to show because OP had $2.20 minimum prices. They let him crawl on the lead in the race .. and a horse that Joe Woodard trained who had recently missed the board twice in a row at Mountaineer Park chugged home 2nd to MDO.

It's a shame cameras didn't work back where he made the bet ... I might have asked the manager to review the tape. It could have been a blast to see a figment of my imagination in action.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by HomerS

I have read it. Unless I am missing something it was all about handle.

Most important thing is handle. Second most important is handle. Third most important- is handle

This is a business.

As player and long time Monmouth attendee I love what is happening this year. I want there to be a sustainable working model for years to come.

HomerS -Blinkers On

[Danzig]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/114670.html

more bad news for nyra. they are in a very weak position right now, and it looks like horsemen are using that to their advantage in this case.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by jms62

HomerS -Blinkers On

This is a pretty typical comment and further illustrates Steve's point.