SUN: Racing's media makeover paying off

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Who says they will be betting on Laurel?...It works for AC and its a cess pool down there.....Limos are a start. I'm talking full court treatment.

It works for AC? Huh? AC is broke Randall. It is a dying town and the only viable casino there is far off the strip. What is that viable casino? Hmmmmm..

Would this casino have restaurants by celebrity chefs? Would it have a dance club that packs in beautiful people? Would it have concerts and shows? Would it have a nice spa??? Would it have a shopping arcade???

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

It works for AC? Huh? AC is broke Randall. It is a dying town and the only viable casino there is far off the strip. What is that viable casino? Hmmmmm..

Would this casino have restaurants by celebrity chefs? Would it have a dance club that packs in beautiful people? Would it have concerts and shows? Would it have a nice spa??? Would it have a shopping arcade???

AC is broke b/c gambling is available everywhere. Pocono, Foxwoods indian casinos all over....Just more of a reason for racing to make itself a whales first option. Lowering WPS to 10% has to happen as well. Good luck trying to convince people of this.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

AC is broke b/c gambling is available everywhere. Pocono, Foxwoods indian casinos all over....Just more of a reason for racing to make itself a whales first option. Lowering WPS to 10% has to happen as well. Good luck trying to convince people of this.

AC was broke long before that. The "whale" mentality is over Randall. That mentality is very 30 years ago. Look at Las Vegas if you want to see what Im talking about. I'm not saying a good player doesnt still get comped. My point is that the days of Steve Wynn having a shadow creek exclusively for whales at Mirage are OVER and they aren't coming back.

Where are casinos profits coming from? Do you really think its from whales? If you do, you really need to do some research. Harrah's has broken it down to a science. Why do you think every time you go back, there are more and more slot machines for less and less money (min play)? What about shops? The amount of money they spend in ancillary activities partially makes up for the difference. The vig they get from the dumber players makes up for part even if it is a fraction. Lastly, the rooms are filled with paying customers.

The current economy will not support that whale. Regardless of how loyal you can make a whale player, they still have far too many other options to keep your casino afloat. So how do they stay in business? las Vegas has this incredible way of staying ahead of the curve and reinventing itself. They change their product and they change their target market.

The new thing in Vegas right now is Non gaming hotels. Think about it- NON GAMING HOTELS in the middle of the strip no less! MGM bet 13 billion on city center and there is all of one casino in the whole place and it isnt very big. Go figure-Vegas, created as a gambling town, is actually making money on non-gaming ventures. What if you proposed this idea 20 years ago? People would have laughed. Some genius, namely Kirkorian, saw the forest through the trees. And you know what? 50 years from now, the rest of the strip will look a lot like the new City Center. Gaming will always be a part of the town but it won't be what the town is about.

Horse racing needs that type of vision.

[Antitrust32]

We'll see what happens at Woodbine. They are the business model everyone in racing should live by.

I was going to say lets see what happens at Gulfstream.. but Magna is hopeless.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

We'll see what happens at Woodbine. They are the business model everyone in racing should live by.

I was going to say lets see what happens at Gulfstream.. but Magna is hopeless.

Venue is a part of it. Why did they install lights at Churchill downs? Hmmmmmmm. Racing is going to be a part of an entertainment package. It will attract more people. So who cares if most of the people that come initially won't bet? Is that somehow better than the empty stands on a thursday afternoon where lone golf claps are heard for a mile?

What if instead of 6000 people on a saturday, you get 30k? Does anybody really think that the extra 24k won't create SOME handle? Does anybody really think they won't eat, drink and buy souveniers? Will they pay for premium seats? All of this is revenue.

Stronach's ideas for gulfstream were on the money. The planning and execution just stunk.

[Antitrust32]

as long as they eat carolina bbq Its all good.

Woodbine has by far the best venue out there.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Venue is a part of it. Why did they install lights at Churchill downs? Hmmmmmmm. Racing is going to be a part of an entertainment package. It will attract more people. So who cares if most of the people that come initially won't bet? Is that somehow better than the empty stands on a thursday afternoon where lone golf claps are heard for a mile?

What if instead of 6000 people on a saturday, you get 30k? Does anybody really think that the extra 24k won't create SOME handle? Does anybody really think they won't eat, drink and buy souveniers? Will they pay for premium seats? All of this is revenue.

Stronach's ideas for gulfstream were on the money. The planning and execution just stunk.

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

Kill a third of the tracks and dates!

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are delusional to think that horseracing on a regular basis can market itself into 30000 fans. Honestly horseracing is pretty boring if you arent betting or have some sort of rooting interest.

And all of the fantasy revenue you just created goes directly into the pocket of the track, it doesnt help the grow the racing program or do a thing for those that actually do gamble except make things less conveinent.

Stronachs ideas for Gulfstream were ridiclous from the standpoint of the sport of horseracing. Perhaps for the bottom line of Magna they were great ideas but the idea that people are going to go to a mall, wander over to the track and become horseracing players is crazy.

Gulfstream has racing dates from the beginning of January until the end of april. It sits vacant for basically two thirds of the year. How is this economical if racing is the basis for all of its revenue? That sounds like a pretty poor business model to me. If I opened a restaurant, how am I going to make money if I'm closed two third of the year and when I'm open, I only fill 10% of my tables?????

Remember now, I still have to pay taxes on my swath of South florida real estate. I have to maintain it as well during those off months. How is this economically feasible?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Venue is a part of it. Why did they install lights at Churchill downs? Hmmmmmmm. Racing is going to be a part of an entertainment package. It will attract more people. So who cares if most of the people that come initially won't bet? Is that somehow better than the empty stands on a thursday afternoon where lone golf claps are heard for a mile?

What if instead of 6000 people on a saturday, you get 30k? Does anybody really think that the extra 24k won't create SOME handle? Does anybody really think they won't eat, drink and buy souveniers? Will they pay for premium seats? All of this is revenue.

Stronach's ideas for gulfstream were on the money. The planning and execution just stunk.

Great posts today!

I'm looking forward to checking the City Center out this fall. It's a big improvement over the boardwalk. Sheesh that place smelled like piss, cigs, and ass.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

AC was broke long before that. The "whale" mentality is over Randall. That mentality is very 30 years ago. Look at Las Vegas if you want to see what Im talking about. I'm not saying a good player doesnt still get comped. My point is that the days of Steve Wynn having a shadow creek exclusively for whales at Mirage are OVER and they aren't coming back.

Where are casinos profits coming from? Do you really think its from whales? If you do, you really need to do some research. Harrah's has broken it down to a science. Why do you think every time you go back, there are more and more slot machines for less and less money (min play)? What about shops? The amount of money they spend in ancillary activities partially makes up for the difference. The vig they get from the dumber players makes up for part even if it is a fraction. Lastly, the rooms are filled with paying customers.

The current economy will not support that whale. Regardless of how loyal you can make a whale player, they still have far too many other options to keep your casino afloat. So how do they stay in business? las Vegas has this incredible way of staying ahead of the curve and reinventing itself. They change their product and they change their target market.

The new thing in Vegas right now is Non gaming hotels. Think about it- NON GAMING HOTELS in the middle of the strip no less! MGM bet 13 billion on city center and there is all of one casino in the whole place and it isnt very big. Go figure-Vegas, created as a gambling town, is actually making money on non-gaming ventures. What if you proposed this idea 20 years ago? People would have laughed. Some genius, namely Kirkorian, saw the forest through the trees. And you know what? 50 years from now, the rest of the strip will look a lot like the new City Center. Gaming will always be a part of the town but it won't be what the town is about.

Horse racing needs that type of vision.

The City Center is a black hole

http://www.gamblingonlinemagazine.co...articleID=2266

[Cannon Shell]

More cheery news from Vegas and its new found "makeover"

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2010/0...-news-8169.htm

[blackthroatedwind]

Shouldn't racetracks figure out how to give their current customers the kind of treatment they deserve before trying to solve the elusive goal of creating a plentitude of new fans?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Shouldn't racetracks figure out how to give their current customers the kind of treatment they deserve before trying to solve the elusive goal of creating a plentitude of new fans?

A simple "I agree with Randall in this thread" would have sufficed.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The City Center is a black hole

http://www.gamblingonlinemagazine.co...articleID=2266

I wouldn't call it a black hole (although it's far from a success)... a ton of losses stem from their EXTREMELY over ambitious condo plan, designed and built at the top of the market. They are doing over 3X revenue from non-gaming sources than gaming. That is what Dalakhani was referring to.

Although I still like the idea of a Vajazzle booth at CD.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

I wouldn't call it a black hole (although it's far from a success)... a ton of losses stem from their EXTREMELY over ambitious condo plan, designed and built at the top of the market. They are doing over 3X revenue from non-gaming sources than gaming. That is what Dalakhani was referring to.

Although I still like the idea of a Vajazzle booth at CD.

Spin it how you want but there is a greater chance of the thing going bankrupt than being a success now that dubai world no longer has unlimited funds.

[Cannon Shell]

Las Vegas's City Center resort, the most expensive hotel-and-casino development to date, bled cash during its first full quarter of operations.

The $8.5 billion City Center, jointly owned by MGM Mirage and Dubai World, struggled to fill its 4,000-room luxury hotel after opening in December. It has only been able to finalize sales of about 100 of its 2,400 luxury condominiums. And it is enmeshed in a dispute with its chief contractor, Perini Building Co., over about $500 million in construction fees.

In the first quarter, City Center recorded an operating loss of $255 million. That includes a $171 million write-down in the value of the project's condos. The company took back $24 million from buyers who forfeited their deposits on condos. Before accounting for the write-downs or other charges, City Center incurred a loss of $32 million.

The success of City Center has implications for the rest of Las Vegas. Other properties along the Las Vegas Strip have always worried that if City Center's occupancy rates remain low, the resort might be forced to discount heavily, sparking a price war that could drag down the broader market.

City Center President Bobby Baldwin joked during a conference call with analysts Thursday that if the trend doesn't improve by next quarter, "I won't be on the call."

But he and other MGM Mirage executives remain upbeat about the long-term prospects for City Center and insist that it is poised to benefit as Las Vegas rebounds from a deep downturn. Already, the number of people occupying hotel rooms is showing signs of improvement.

MGM Mirage Chief Executive Jim Murren said that the company expected to have a tough first quarter amid the recession. "But the trends have been moving sequentially in the right direction," he added during a conference call.

Mr. Murren conceived of the City Center project six years ago as a way to create a new urban center for Las Vegas. He shepherded it through to completion, even as its prospects grew dimmer. The project consists of six towers filled with luxury condos, a 150,000-square-foot casino and three hotels, in addition to a mall designed by Daniel Libeskind.

The construction costs were so massive, that at one point last year City Center narrowly avoided bankruptcy.

On Thursday, MGM Mirage reported a first-quarter loss of $96.7 million compared with a profit of $105.2 million a year earlier. Much of the loss was caused by City Center. The company released preliminary results last month.

The centerpiece hotel and casino, Aria, had an occupancy rate of 63% for the first three months of the year, 22 percentage points below the 85% rate for MGM Mirage's nine other Las Vegas Strip casinos during the first quarter.

So far, investors have been patient, expecting that the property—and the company—will benefit from a Las Vegas recovery. The region continues to lag other big hotel markets.

Las Vegas Sands Corp., which also reported its first-quarter earnings Thursday, offered an indication that the picture in Las Vegas may be improving. The company posted its first profit in two years as its earnings rose 62% in Las Vegas and quadrupled in Macau.

Like Messrs. Murren and Baldwin of MGM Mirage, Las Vegas Sands CEO Sheldon Adelson said he was encouraged by increased group bookings in Las Vegas. But while leisure rates have appeared to jump during the past four-to-six weeks, group rates haven't shown signs of improvement, Las Vegas Sands executives said.

Large Las Vegas resorts like City Center often report higher-than-normal expenses in their first quarter as they ramp up business.

Analysts say the property's true potential and success won't be measured until after a Las Vegas comeback fully takes hold.

"City Center is a worry," said Sanford C. Bernstein analyst Janet Brashear. "MGM obviously has high hopes and we know the market is going to recover, but the casino world is fickle."

In an interview, MGM Mirage Chief Marketing Officer Bill Hornbuckle said he is planning new marketing campaigns and will continue to use lower rates and promotions to boost occupancy. "Like anything in gaming, luck always becomes a factor," he said. He added that he expects occupancy and room rates to stabilize as the group-sales business picks up. "All signs are good. Remember, the cure-all here is simply time," he said.

Though the construction cranes have gone, City Center is still embroiled in a $500 million dispute with Perini over how much responsibility the contractor should bear for the Harmon Hotel, where serious construction problems occurred. As a result of the discovery of defects there that needed to be remedied, the Harmon building is half as tall as originally planned. Now its opening is delayed indefinitely.

It also remains unclear how much money City Center's condos will eventually bring in. At the height of the market, condo proceeds were expected to bring in $2.7 billion. Now, the number of buyers who will ultimately close on a condo sale is uncertain.

New-home prices in Las Vegas are down about 40% from their peak in 2006, with the luxury condo market experiencing larger declines. The company reduced condo prices at City Center by 30% and has closed on the sales of 109 units so far, for $119 million. City Center provided the loans for those sales. Around an equal number of condo buyers have chosen to forfeit their deposit and walk away from the deal, said Tony Dennis, executive vice president for MGM Mirage's residential-sales division. Mr. Dennis said an additional 600 buyers are in the loan-approval process.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Spin it how you want but there is a greater chance of the thing going bankrupt than being a success now that dubai world no longer has unlimited funds.

Happy birthday by the way, old man

Would it have a spa that has a vajazzle booth?