Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Something went wrong with RA? She's still running > 100 Beyers, isn't she? Which means she still FASTER than Z (and thus better).

I don't know what you're talking about, Willis.

you forgot the one about where she can't beat rail trip. i heard shes ducking him because hes so good . someone on here is talking about facts. how about the fact that the whole idea of this thread is "factless". rail trip is scaring them away now....wait a minute , who did not show up in arkansas last month?

[miraja2]

I am pretty far from being a big Zenyatta fan, but comparing her to that stupid, worthless, piece-of-crap, New Mexico horse - even in jest - is just going way too far.
Zenyatta's connections did make two different attempts to run their horse against the best out there: the BCC and the Apple Blossom. In one instance she ran against the worst BCC field ever on her preferred surface, and in the other one nobody ended up showing up to run against her. Those are hardly the connections' fault.

I actually still like Zenyatta....despite her ardent fans' inadvertent attempts to force me to root for her to lose (just so they will shut the hell up).

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I actually still like RA....despite her ardent fans' inadvertent attempts to force me to root for her to win (just so they will shut the hell up).

Fixed that for you.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Zenyatta's connections did make two different attempts to run their horse against the best out there: the BCC and the Apple Blossom. In one instance she ran against the worst BCC field ever on her preferred surface, and in the other one nobody ended up showing up to run against her. Those are hardly the connections' fault.

Actually. They waffled on the BCC until they knew for sure it was going to be a very weak spot.

They also knew that RA was behind in her training and that there was a realistic chance she couldn't make it to the Apple Blossom

They've been very shrewd.

[Smooth Operator]

LOL @ this "worst BCC field ever" drivel

Euros dominated the race in '08 … and they sent over a couple more good ones for the '09 edition on the very same surface …. and Z schooled them in the lane.

Your time would be better spent talking about the 'worst Woodward and Haskell fields ever'.

Your time would be better spent learning how to breathe with your mouth closed.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

LOL @ this "worst BCC field ever" drivel
Euros dominated the race in '08 … and they sent over a couple more good ones for the '09 edition on the very same surface …. and Z schooled them in the lane.

Your time would be better spent talking about the 'worst Woodward and Haskell fields ever'.

why is one a suitable topic, and not the other? the horses who rachel beat were no good according to you, yet zenyatta also faced some of the same horses in cali at years end-yet the bcc talk if being worst ever is drivel... neither horse has beaten much at this point. the points against one are just as valid against the other. the points for each as well.


at this point, i wish both would retire so i could quit seeing endless threads with the same tired arguments.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Actually. They waffled on the Woodward until they knew for sure it was going to be a very weak spot.

They also knew that they couldn't beat Zenyatta and that was when they decided to invent a consumable excuse why she couldn't make it to the Apple Blossom

They've been very shrewd.

FIFY

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you forgot the one about where she can't beat rail trip. i heard shes ducking him because hes so good . someone on here is talking about facts. how about the fact that the whole idea of this thread is "factless". rail trip is scaring them away now....wait a minute , who did not show up in arkansas last month?

rail trip??

thing is, much as zenyatta has done, you have to admit she hasn't done it vs much, and that better races could have been found to showcase her amazing talents. if you want all the marbles, you have to go after them-they haven't. most of her races have been vs suspect competition. yes, she raced what showed up, but she only went out of her usual restricted competition once. why not again? i'm hoping once they break the winning streak, and one assumes she will (i posted once, some time back that maybe she'd stay around long enough to do so), that they try something different again.

[cmorioles]

Back to the topic, are people really excited about Rail Trip? The same Rail Trip that won against stiffs while tracking a pace similar to those set in two earlier maiden claiming races on the card?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Back to the topic, are people really excited about Rail Trip? The same Rail Trip that won against stiffs while tracking a pace similar to those set in two earlier maiden claiming races on the card?

Add on Ellis is usually great off long layoffs.

[fpsoxfan]

Wow..just got through this thread. Could be a top-5.

[blackthroatedwind]

I found it hilarious.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Back to the topic, are people really excited about Rail Trip? The same Rail Trip that won against stiffs while tracking a pace similar to those set in two earlier maiden claiming races on the card?

Consider the following: with THIS jock, Rail Trip can get that 'trip' EVERY time. This is the trip he got when he went 10F --- distance challenged that he is.

Which means that, if ridden correctly, he can basically control any race. More precisely, he can keep a race from collapsing by not moving too soon and forcing the off the pacers to do all their own running. This assumes, of course, that it'll be a reasonably small field. In a large(r) field, it's almost guaranteed that a couple of idiots will move too soon and collapse the race. This, btw, was the trip that RA could've gotten in the BC.

I certainly don't think that RT can beat Z; especially at 10F. Going shorter, however, and in a small field, with a perfect ride, he'd be a challenge.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Consider the following: with THIS jock, Rail Trip can get that 'trip' EVERY time. This is the trip he got when he went 10F --- distance challenged that he is.

Which means that, if ridden correctly, he can basically control any race. More precisely, he can keep a race from collapsing by not moving too soon and forcing the off the pacers to do all their own running. This assumes, of course, that it'll be a reasonably small field. In a large(r) field, it's almost guaranteed that a couple of idiots will move too soon and collapse the race. This, btw, was the trip that RA could've gotten in the BC.

I certainly don't think that RT can beat Z; especially at 10F. Going shorter, however, and in a small field, with a perfect ride, he'd be a challenge.

I don't see how he can get that trip if there is other decent speed in the race. Exactly once has he been rated off the pace and farther back than second, and while he ran ok he still lost to Einstein and Richard's Kid. He is not going to get that slow pace while still sitting second in a G1 race.

He has shown in the past to be able to run faster early and still run a good race. My only point is the "great comeback" was nothing more than a workout. He only ran for the last 1/4 or so.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

He has shown in the past to be able to run faster early and still run a good race. My only point is the "great comeback" was nothing more than a workout. He only ran for the last 1/4 or so.

Not to resurrect an old discussion (Eskendereya's Wood), but isn't this why Rail Trip's race was pretty impressive on Saturday. Despite nearly identical fractions, his final running time was over three seconds faster than the other 8.5F races on the card, and on a (synthetic) surface that often compresses margins of victory, he drew off to win by over three lengths while in hand.

Here's a horse that has run triple-digit Beyers on a half-dozen occasions, certainly far more than any of the females that Zenyatta has been beating up on. If he's going to get 10F, it's probably at Hollywood Park (as he did last year). And while we must be careful of trainer-speak, maybe this horse is improved as a 5YO.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Not to resurrect an old discussion (Eskendereya's Wood), but isn't this why Rail Trip's race was pretty impressive on Saturday. Despite nearly identical fractions, his final running time was over three seconds faster than the other 8.5F races on the card, and on a (synthetic) surface that often compresses margins of victory, he drew off to win by over three lengths while in hand.

Here's a horse that has run triple-digit Beyers on a half-dozen occasions, certainly far more than any of the females that Zenyatta has been beating up on. If he's going to get 10F, it's probably at Hollywood Park (as he did last year). And while we must be careful of trainer-speak, maybe this horse is improved as a 5YO.

Under no circumstances would I consider a horse sitting behind an overmatched foe in very slow time then flying home late impressive. This is especially true when said horse has never shown the ability to do this from farther back than second in his entire career.

Again, I'm not knocking the horse, it was a workout, nothing more. I would think he will have trouble being ready for the HGC off this effort alone.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Back to the topic, are people really excited about Rail Trip?

Am I excited? Not really.
But he is an older male horse who actually ran a pretty good route race. Given how infrequently that happens these days, a potential matchup between he and Zenyatta is (sadly) more interesting than most potential races out there right now.