NBC Coverage

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

think poker exploded because of Phil Hellmuth's personality?

Poker didn't explode because of Phil Hellmuth's personality. And it didn't explode because they decided to shine a light on the gambling aspect, either. Every idiot born yesterday knows that poker is gambling and always has been.

Poker exploded for one reason and one reason only: They found new and interesting ways to televise it and ESPN put it on the air....a lot. Television then educated the public and after a few episodes, every middle-aged man and college frat boy in America thought he was Doyle Brunson. Luckily, there was plenty of opportunity for them to put their money where their mouths were -- on their ADW Internet wagering sites.

[rpncaine]

Chris Moneymaker didn't hurt. That's when I think it went ballistic. That dude hitting SS with $100K was good publicity. I didn't see any of the network news this weekend, I just wonder if it got any attention on that?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

My Wife, who could care less about horse racing, watched the entire ESPN broadcast, formulated her own opinion based on what she saw... and hit the Exacta and Tri.... She went to the track with me (for the first time as a horseplayer) today for the closing of TBD... Just sayin'....

GTFO... that is great! That is how you create a horseplayer.

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

How about the Suffolk Downs Suckfuk go Downers?

Originally Posted by rpncaine

Chris Moneymaker didn't hurt. That's when I think it went ballistic. That dude hitting SS with $100K was good publicity. I didn't see any of the network news this weekend, I just wonder if it got any attention on that?

It hit some news stands, my mother saw it in her papers this morning (Buffalo News, Rochester D&C) but the dumbfuks reporting didn't even do due diligence on the story- they reported it as "some guy walking around with briefcase full of $100k in cash", not that it was a CNBC contest that he won the opportunity to bet.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dean smith

Poker didn't explode because of Phil Hellmuth's personality. And it didn't explode because they decided to shine a light on the gambling aspect, either. Every idiot born yesterday knows that poker is gambling and always has been.

Poker exploded for one reason and one reason only: They found new and interesting ways to televise it and ESPN put it on the air....a lot. Television then educated the public and after a few episodes, every middle-aged man and college frat boy in America thought he was Doyle Brunson. Luckily, there was plenty of opportunity for them to put their money where their mouths were -- on their ADW Internet wagering sites.

Poker is pure gambling. Nothing else, nothing more. The millions of people that played poker after the exposure were looking to gamble anyway, they werent brainwashed into it.

TV educated the public about the strategy being used which is basically the gambling aspect. I understand that three live shows weeks apart on Saturday afternoons in the Spring isnt the same as edited wall to wall coverage. And i understand that NBC or ABC or ESPN is under no obligation to educate people on anything. But the idea that someone is sparked to bet on the races by flowery interviews or human interest stories versus someone winning a couple hundred dollars is flawed.

[blackthroatedwind]

Perhaps an attempt to explain why people like certain horses, and why they don't like others, could enlighten people a little about what is so interesting about handicapping that many people devote their lives to it's pursuit. There are many stories within a race.....surely some of these could be interesting.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Perhaps an attempt to explain why people like certain horses, and why they don't like others, could enlighten people a little about what is so interesting about handicapping that many people devote their lives to it's pursuit. There are many stories within a race.....surely some of these could be interesting.

You think its entertaining to broadcast why expert A thinks horse B is better then horse C..For whom the diehard horse guy? I think the average joe or Joette wants to see and hear Nick Lachey or some hot babe in a hat or some human interest story about a lemonade stand. The issue is the Derby needs to be on a Network that caters to Horse Racing, then the broadcast could be honed to horse players. While it's on main stream TV..Pack up the Sackatoga Buss storys

How horrendously dry and fruitless is listening to Randy Moss during the BC, not to me or horse racing diehards but to my sister who goes to SA three times a year? How is my sister going to follow a single thought (no matter how qualified) Moss is offering?

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How is my sister going to follow a single thought (no matter how qualified) Moss is offering?

Good question.

Does she happen to have a brain?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Good question.

Does she happen to have a brain?

She must.....someone in Fred's family had to have gotten one. I've only met Freddy and his Dad.....so far 0 for 2.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Good question.

Does she happen to have a brain?

Actually she is very smart, but she would have zero shot following Moss not that he isn't excellent just that his style is completely geared for someone with a racing base of knowledge.

Handicapping is incredibly complicated with a myriad of disciplines. How the heck is the average person who has a once or twice a year interest in racing going to be entertained by speed figs. pedigree info, trip evaluation, morning works, Jockey evaluation, track conditions, racetrack configs etc etc.. Its WAY to much for the twice a year fan.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Actually she is very smart, but she would have zero shot following Moss not that he isn't excellent just that his style is completely geared for someone with a racing base of knowledge.

Handicapping is incredibly complicated with a myriad of disciplines. How the heck is the average person who has a once or twice a year interest in racing going to be entertained by speed figs. pedigree info, trip evaluation, morning works, Jockey evaluation, track conditions, racetrack configs etc etc.. Its WAY to much for the twice a year fan.

John Madden did it with Football.

Originally Posted by freddymo

Actually she is very smart, but she would have zero shot following Moss not that he isn't excellent just that his style is completely geared for someone with a racing base of knowledge.

Handicapping is incredibly complicated with a myriad of disciplines. How the heck is the average person who has a once or twice a year interest in racing going to be entertained by speed figs. pedigree info, trip evaluation, morning works, Jockey evaluation, track conditions, racetrack configs etc etc.. Its WAY to much for the twice a year fan.

What they need to do is pay Andy for his handicapping opinion and have Megan Fox relay the info.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You think its entertaining to broadcast why expert A thinks horse B is better then horse C..For whom the diehard horse guy? I think the average joe or Joette wants to see and hear Nick Lachey or some hot babe in a hat or some human interest story about a lemonade stand. The issue is the Derby needs to be on a Network that caters to Horse Racing, then the broadcast could be honed to horse players. While it's on main stream TV..Pack up the Sackatoga Buss storys

How horrendously dry and fruitless is listening to Randy Moss during the BC, not to me or horse racing diehards but to my sister who goes to SA three times a year? How is my sister going to follow a single thought (no matter how qualified) Moss is offering?

Believe me, I get it, but perhaps some give and take?

In my opinion, you will not ever create new fans without at least offering the possibility of teaching or grabbing someone's interest by offering a possible hook. These shows are more interesting to the people who won't be supporting the game.....but what good does that do for us? Yes, I see why it may suit another agenda....just not mine.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Believe me, I get it, but perhaps some give and take?

In my opinion, you will not ever create new fans without at least offering the possibility of teaching or grabbing someone's interest by offering a possible hook. These shows are more interesting to the people who won't be supporting the game.....but what good does that do for us? Yes, I see why it may suit another agenda....just not mine.

The ESPN broadcast is OK even if Bailey is unbearable. People (non race fans) seem to want to watch the Derby hence the good ratings this year in perhaps the most dreadful Derby in quite some time. As long as they can sell spots for good money on Network TV the day is doomed for more of the same recipe. Why would they change it? I am very surprised the derby draw such a high TV rating. The culture seems to love the SUPERBOWL format. If Direct TV was smart they would bid for the Derby put it on as an exclusive and use it to sell subscriptions. Since they cant bundle programming with internet access and phone lines they need another hook besides the NFL package. The Derby is now proven to be a very saleable poduct to the average viewer.If Direct TV or a like company owned the Derby they would offer two broadcasts one for the common veiwer and one for the diehard that would be back for future broadcasts of other product like BC and other Major race days. That is what racing needs someone other then a betting channel to pick it up develop and educate the fan. HRTV is only in 12 mil homes and TVG (Betfair) is completely uninterested in racing, Betfair is in the market only to have a foot in place when other types of gambling get legalized. If Betfair breaks even on racing great if not they just have to have a presence till gambling is finally gets opened.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The Derby is now proven to be a very saleable poduct to the average viewer.

That is what racing needs someone other then a betting channel to pick it up develop and educate the fan.

Agree!

Isn't that pretty much what Andy is saying?

Since it's low risk (the Derby isn't in a prime time slot) and since they have advertising revenue coming in ( and the possibility of even more potential advertisers) why not make it BETTER?

Regarding your "handicapping is complicated" post... well yes of course but don't assume that people are dumb and wouldn't be able to pick up on it.

That said please don't turn this around on me... they won't be hanciappers immediately and that's not what I'm saying.

An interest though... planting a seed. It hasn't exactly been done on network tv, during the Triple Crown or the BC.

Why not try it? Why not attempt to begin to pressure them to listen? The carrot in front of the carriage is the more advertising angle...

[Linny]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Perhaps an attempt to explain why people like certain horses, and why they don't like others, could enlighten people a little about what is so interesting about handicapping that many people devote their lives to it's pursuit. There are many stories within a race.....surely some of these could be interesting.

You mean there's more to it that who designed the hat the owners wife wore to the Derby luncheon? To think I've been handicapping hats all these years....

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Linny

You mean there's more to it that who designed the hat the owners wife wore to the Derby luncheon? To think I've been handicapping hats all these years....

Shouldn't you be watching The View or cleaning or something?

[Linny]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Shouldn't you be watching The View or cleaning or something?

I think I need to go get someone a beer or something... Where is that dust cloth...

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Linny

I think I need to go get someone a beer or something... Where is that dust cloth...

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Poker is pure gambling. Nothing else, nothing more. The millions of people that played poker after the exposure were looking to gamble anyway, they werent brainwashed into it.

TV educated the public about the strategy being used which is basically the gambling aspect. I understand that three live shows weeks apart on Saturday afternoons in the Spring isnt the same as edited wall to wall coverage. And i understand that NBC or ABC or ESPN is under no obligation to educate people on anything. But the idea that someone is sparked to bet on the races by flowery interviews or human interest stories versus someone winning a couple hundred dollars is flawed.

I dunno. In our celebrity-obsessed culture, seeing Michael Jordan, Jessica Simpson, and other glamerous people there and singing its praises gives a lot of people out there reason to think, "hey, maybe this isn't just a seedy, degenerate sport. This is HIP. What am I missing?" Think of them as celebrity endorsements, much like Charles Barkley for Right Guard, or Catherine Zeta-Jones for that phone company.

And really, whether you believe television doesn't -- or is under no obligation to -- educate, it does on a very basic, fundamental level. When Costas talks about different horses' running styles and how it could affect the outcome, or when guys like Goldberg give their picks and tell you why, it piques interest in people, which they may investigate further on their own later.

Originally Posted by dean smith

I dunno. In our celebrity-obsessed culture, seeing Michael Jordan, Jessica Simpson, and other glamerous people there and singing its praises gives a lot of people out there reason to think, "hey, maybe this isn't just a seedy, degenerate sport. This is HIP. What am I missing?" Think of them as celebrity endorsements, much like Charles Barkley for Right Guard, or Catherine Zeta-Jones for that phone company.

And really, whether you believe television doesn't -- or is under no obligation to -- educate, it does on a very basic, fundamental level. When Costas talks about different horses' running styles and how it could affect the outcome, or when guys like Goldberg give their picks and tell you why, it piques interest in people, which they may investigate further on their own later.