HOTY: If Zenyatta wins the Classic...

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

No they're not, that's what Greg Avioli would like you to believe.

Horse racing, unlike the NFL is simply a long season that has a culminating day where you can CHOOSE to run in them. That's why BC Classic winners in the past have earned no end of season honors.

NT

So they believe Vale of York is 2yr old colt champion?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Are you serious or are you being sarcastic? I hope you are serious. Heatseeker was a really good horse before he got hurt. He was a Grade I winner and made over $1 million.

Fairbanks ran a few big races. He made almost $900,000.

Of course I'm serious... They also have something in common.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Of course I'm serious... They also have something in common.

You are correct: Giant's Causeway

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Of course I'm serious... They also have something in common.

Don't forget about Swift Temper, she's special too, right?

NT

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Do you really think that was the same MTB that ran in the preakness? Zenyatta wouldn't have even beat MTB in the preakness she prob would have finished 4th behind Musket Man. MTB was at his peak in that race he's a shell of that horse now. If the classic was run on dirt yesterday no she would not have beaten Macho Again nor would she have beaten him or RA in the Woodward

.....wow

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by kgar311

I cant even believe im commenting on your comment here after you just displayed how little knowledge you have on the subject. Jess didnt even own here during the Derby, it was stated by her owner at the time she is a filly and will race only against filly's. This is why Jess bought her was to make sure this wasnt the case and find out how good she really is. She passed all tests and put in one of if not the greatest years of all time by any horse.

You're really bitter about the whole thing. Next your going to tell us what a great sportsman Jess Jackson is.

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm sorry, but I can't see awarding a horse who ran a Kip Deville-like schedule and never once left her home state to run with Horse of the Year honors. Summer Bird is still more deserving than she, even after his performance yesterday.

Are you on meth..?

[Rupert Pupkin]

The more I think about it, even though Rachel wasn't that impressive in the Preakness or Woodward, she may not have liked either of those tracks. I know that Borel said she didn't really handle the track at Pimlico. I didn't hear any comments from him regarding whether she liked the track at Saratoga, but I know that alot of horses don't handle that track, so she may not have liked the track there either.

So she really may have had a much bigger excuse than just going too fast early in those races. It may have been a combination of going too fast and not handling those tracks.

She may in fact be a totally different horse at tracks she likes such as Churchill, Belmont, and Monmouth.

She really did look like a different horse in those races.

So the more I think about it, if Zenyatta and Rachel faced other, I think there is a good chance it would come down to which track they ran at and how the race set up. If they ran at Santa Anita or Saratoga, my guess is that Zenyatta probably wins. But if they run at Churchill or Belmont, I think Rachel may win. The pace would obviously be a big factor too.

I was just going over Macho Again's PPs and watching some of his races. He is actually a much better horse than I realized. I had totally forgotten that he won the Stephen Foster. I think the race that Rachel ran in the Woodward was actually quite a bit better than I originally thought.

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The more I think about it, even though Rachel wasn't that impressive in the Preakness or Woodward, she may not have liked either of those tracks. I know that Borel said she didn't really handle the track at Pimlico. I didn't hear any comments from him regarding whether she liked the track at Saratoga, but I know that alot of horses don't handle that track, so she may not have liked the track there either.

So she really may have had a much bigger excuse than just going too fast early in those races. It may have been a combination of going too fast and not handling those tracks.

She may in fact be a totally different horse at tracks she likes such as Churchill, Belmont, and Monmouth.

She really did look like a different horse in those races.

So the more I think about it, if Zenyatta and Rachel faced other, I think there is a good chance it would come down to which track they ran at and how the race set up. If they ran at Santa Anita or Saratoga, my guess is that Zenyatta probably wins. But if they run at Churchill or Belmont, I think Rachel may win. The pace would obviously be a big factor too.

Actually it comes down to the distance... Rachel was breathing fire in the Preakness(1 3/16) and the Woodward(1 1/4), she was at her bottom for sure in both of those huge efforts.

Zenyatta would run right past RA at anything further than 1 1/8, any thing less, RA is outta sight from Z.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by pba1817

Actually it comes down to the distance... Rachel was breathing fire in the Preakness(1 3/16) and the Woodward(1 1/4), she was at her bottom for sure in both of those huge efforts.

Zenyatta would run right past RA at anything further than 1 1/8, any thing less, RA is outta sight from Z.

The Woodward is only 1 1/8 miles, not 1 1/4 miles. I think it would come down to the track just as much the distance. At Churchill in the Ky Oaks, it looked like Rachel could have gone another 1/8 of a mile with no problem.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Can you find me the chart that says the OP Handicap was run in 1:50 and 2/5?

Cause Equibase says it was run in 1:48.60.

NT

I'm starting to wonder if the Equibase time is right. If you watch the replay and clock the race, you will get 1:50. I know that there is nothing wrong with my stop-watch because when I clock the Apple Blossom I get 1:42 3/5 which is the correct time.

As I said, there was a problem with the clock on the race. If you watch the replay, you will see that the fractions were all messed up. They showed the opening 1/4 mile going in :19 and the half going in :41. The final time showed as 1:50 but how could you really trust that after the fractions were totally wrong. So nobody was sure what the final time was after the race. They ended up coming up with something a day or two later but I can't remember what it was. All I know is that right now Equibase shows the final time was 1:48 3/5 (I'm trusting you on that). But if you clock the race, you will get 1:50. If you go to racereplays.com, they show the final time as 1:50.34.

If you read any articles about the race, they show the final time as 1:50.34.

Here are a couple of articles:

http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=31799

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horse...42525327_x.htm

[herkhorse]

Zenyatta came screaming down the lane to the roar of the crowd with an excitement that hasn't been felt in this game since- well the Woodward. As far as HOY goes, it's like the Oscars- I could care less.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Don't forget about Swift Temper, she's special too, right?

NT

Shes actually decent and her powerfull win over Seventh Street really validates Icon Project.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

However, one consistent theme of many on this board throughout the year has been that somehow Zenyatta is inferior to Rachel because she's much "slower" on the Beyer scale. If many let go of their slavish reliance on the Beyers (which are pretty unreliable on synthetic surfaces), they might discover that Zenyatta is not as "slow" as they thought.

Glad you brought this up and worth repeating.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The more I think about it, even though Rachel wasn't that impressive in the Preakness or Woodward, she may not have liked either of those tracks. I know that Borel said she didn't really handle the track at Pimlico. I didn't hear any comments from him regarding whether she liked the track at Saratoga, but I know that alot of horses don't handle that track, so she may not have liked the track there either.

So she really may have had a much bigger excuse than just going too fast early in those races. It may have been a combination of going too fast and not handling those tracks.

She may in fact be a totally different horse at tracks she likes such as Churchill, Belmont, and Monmouth.

She really did look like a different horse in those races.

So the more I think about it, if Zenyatta and Rachel faced other, I think there is a good chance it would come down to which track they ran at and how the race set up. If they ran at Santa Anita or Saratoga, my guess is that Zenyatta probably wins. But if they run at Churchill or Belmont, I think Rachel may win. The pace would obviously be a big factor too.

I was just going over Macho Again's PPs and watching some of his races. He is actually a much better horse than I realized. I had totally forgotten that he won the Stephen Foster. I think the race that Rachel ran in the Woodward was actually quite a bit better than I originally thought.

Your mindset is puzzling to me.

The only thing that I was unimpressed about this year is the way Zenyatta won her 4 prior starts. Talk about dissappointing. The feeling before each one of those races was is this the day Zen get beat by a bunch of horses that are no better then 40k claimers in NY.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The more I think about it, even though Rachel wasn't that impressive in the Preakness or Woodward, she may not have liked either of those tracks. I know that Borel said she didn't really handle the track at Pimlico. I didn't hear any comments from him regarding whether she liked the track at Saratoga, but I know that alot of horses don't handle that track, so she may not have liked the track there either.

So she really may have had a much bigger excuse than just going too fast early in those races. It may have been a combination of going too fast and not handling those tracks.

She may in fact be a totally different horse at tracks she likes such as Churchill, Belmont, and Monmouth.

She really did look like a different horse in those races.

So the more I think about it, if Zenyatta and Rachel faced other, I think there is a good chance it would come down to which track they ran at and how the race set up. If they ran at Santa Anita or Saratoga, my guess is that Zenyatta probably wins. But if they run at Churchill or Belmont, I think Rachel may win. The pace would obviously be a big factor too.

I was just going over Macho Again's PPs and watching some of his races. He is actually a much better horse than I realized. I had totally forgotten that he won the Stephen Foster. I think the race that Rachel ran in the Woodward was actually quite a bit better than I originally thought.

I dont know why she needs an excuse for the Preakness and the Woodward.. I mean not only did she WIN both races but she had by FAR and by Far I mean like 1000 times tougher trip than anyone in those races. The Preakness and the Woodward may have been her best 2 races when you look at the trip.. though I do feel the Haskell was her best race.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by pba1817

Actually it comes down to the distance... Rachel was breathing fire in the Preakness(1 3/16) and the Woodward(1 1/4), she was at her bottom for sure in both of those huge efforts.

Zenyatta would run right past RA at anything further than 1 1/8, any thing less, RA is outta sight from Z.

Honestly, if Rachel hadnt have had to sprint 1 3/16 in the Preakness and sprint for 1 1/8th in the Woodward, she may have not been so gassed at the end. It was incredible the way she won those races.. as a 3yo filly non-the-less.

If you are going on complete body of work, no doubt hands down Rachel for the HOY. But Zenyatta was really something on Saturday. Ultra impressive though I thought the Classic basically the BC turf 2nd Division.

I dont feel Zenyatta should be HOY over Rachel.. but I am totally okay with them sharing the honors, if that is possible.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by pba1817

Are you on meth..?

Yes, because I think a Belmont-Travers-Jockey Club Gold Cup winner is more worthy of a horse of the year honor than a *insert four cruddy SoCal restricted race*-Breeders Cup Classic winner, I am clearly hanging out with Greta Kuntzweiler. Excellent observation.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Yes, because I think a Belmont-Travers-Jockey Club Gold Cup winner is more worthy of a horse of the year honor than a *insert four cruddy SoCal restricted race*-Breeders Cup Classic winner, I am clearly hanging out with Greta Kuntzweiler. Excellent observation.

summer bird has no shot to take hoy. it's definitely between rachel and zenyatta. once the excitement of zenyatta performance wanes a bit, i think you'll see the tilt back towards rachel for what she's done all year.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Leaving California would have been nice. But I suppose racing all of four times until today and beating up on the likes of Lethal Heat, Briecat and Anabaa's Creation was just too taxing.

Not as taxing as beating Bullsbay, D'tara, Flashing and Malibu Prayer