Dunkirk -- 2 Questions

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm not chomping at the bit to bet a horse making his 4th start in the Derby, and a smallish horse at that.

Is he smallish?

I keep hearing things about his appearance that don't sound consistant with the fact that he was the nations highest priced yearling sold at public auction last year.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Is he smallish?

I keep hearing things about his appearance that don't sound consistant with the fact that he was the nations highest priced yearling sold at public auction last year.

i don't think he's small...he does seem somewhat slightly built tho. i wonder tho how many yearlings don't fulfill their early promise?

[Payson Dave]

iirc, Wasn't Real Quiet slightly built also?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

iirc, Wasn't Real Quiet slightly built also?

Yes.

And he was sold for just 17K as a yearling.

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes.

And he was sold for just 17K as a yearling.

My reference to Real Quiet was not in association with his or anyone elses auction price...

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think he's small...he does seem somewhat slightly built tho. i wonder tho how many yearlings don't fulfill their early promise?

Danzig seems to have little respect for Dunkirk and at least partly her position seems to be based upon him being "slight built" ...

The point of my reference to Real Quiet was to suggest that slightly built horses should not necessarilly be ruled out.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

My reference to Real Quiet was not in association with his or anyone elses auction price...




Danzig seems to have little respect for Dunkirk and at least partly her position seems to be based upon him being "slight built" ...

The point of my reference to Real Quiet was to suggest that slightly built horses should not necessarilly be ruled out.

but real quiet didn't also exhibit a need to be treated lightly. dunkirk must not be a hearty individual based on his lack of racing at two, and only three starts in his entire career. the slightly built part isn't the problem-his inability to withstand the rigors of training and racing is the problem-especially when you consider the race they are potentially pointing him towards.

[Travis Stone]

I'm not picking Dunkirk to win I don't think, but Big Brown was just as lightly raced last year was he not? The argument you're making is fine, however, it's too broad to apply to all horses. And simply put, it's a rigorous test for all horses.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Is he smallish?

I keep hearing things about his appearance that don't sound consistant with the fact that he was the nations highest priced yearling sold at public auction last year.

Don't you think his price had a lot to do with his pedigree?

Objectivity went for over $6M and Dunkirk went through the ring early enough in Secret Status' broodmare career that no one knew she wasn't getting good runners before Dunkirk.

[Danzig]

i just don't see that the ability of an owner to pay obscene amounts of money in any equates to the purchase having tremendous ability two years after the auction.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Don't you think his price had a lot to do with his pedigree?

Pedigree obviously had a lot to do with it ... but I would think the nations highest priced yearling would have to look great.

That same year Zensational sold for just $20K as a yearling - and he's by UBS (Dunkirk's sire) out of a multiple stakes winning mare from a great Claibourne family.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Pedigree obviously had a lot to do with it ... but I would think the nations highest priced yearling would have to look great.

That same year Zensational sold for just $20K as a yearling - and he's by UBS (Dunkirk's sire) out of a multiple stakes winning mare from a great Claibourne family.

I don't disagree that he probably looked good, but you've also got so many other things going on behind the scenes that yearling prices are just unreliable.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The nations highest priced yearling at public auction has a pretty good record historically speaking.

Off the top of my head - I believe Majestic Prince, Mr. Prospector, Nureyev, A. P Indy, Forestry, and Fusaichi Pegasus were all Keeneland July yearling sales toppers...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The nations highest priced yearling at public auction has a pretty good record historically speaking.

Off the top of my head - I believe Majestic Prince, Mr. Prospector, Nureyev, A. P Indy, Forestry, and Fusaichi Pegasus were all Keeneland July yearling sales toppers...

I'm definitely not saying Dunkirk is not a good horse, I think he is a very good horse.

Out of curiousity, who are the sale toppers since Fupeg?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'm definitely not saying Dunkirk is not a good horse, I think he is a very good horse.

Out of curiousity, who are the sale toppers since Fupeg?

I definitely not saying that him being the nations highest priced yearling in '07 means anything more than he's probably good looking and correct.

I think Godolphin has bought most of the yearling sales toppers since Fu Peg - but it's not something I follow taht closely.

I think Jalil and Mr. Sakaguchi were the only two who weren't complete and utter no ability bums...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

He looked small to me compared to Quality Road.

Yeah - QR is a big mofo

[Travis Stone]

If Dunkirk was trained by someone like... Larry Jones, threads like this wouldn't exist.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If Dunkirk was trained by someone like... Larry Jones, threads like this wouldn't exist.

Yeah - we'd already have conceded the race to him.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yeah - we'd already have conceded the race to him.

That but there wouldn't be so much hate for a horse who ran second in the Florida Derby. IF there was a different earnings method for entry into the race, say 2-year-old races discounted, than Dunkirk would be in no problem with a second and the entire discussion surrounding him takes on a different tone.

It would go from not whether or not he should run because of this/that, but whether or not he can overcome the current deficit between Quality Road, which I think should be the topic surrounding him.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

That but there wouldn't be so much hate for a horse who ran second in the Florida Derby. IF there was a different earnings method for entry into the race, say 2-year-old races discounted, than Dunkirk would be in no problem with a second and the entire discussion surrounding him takes on a different tone.

If would go from not whether or not he should run because of this/that, but whether or not he can overcome the current deficit between Quality Road, which I think should be the topic surrounding him.

i'm not a hater. i just think others deserve a better look for the next few weeks than dunkirk.
and i don't think he is better than several horses out there-and i think it would not be in the best interests of the horse to run him in ky, all things considered about him. if he needs easy treatment, and well-spaced races, that's what they should do with him.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm not a hater. i just think others deserve a better look for the next few weeks than dunkirk.
and i don't think he is better than several horses out there-and i think it would not be in the best interests of the horse to run him in ky, all things considered about him. if he needs easy treatment, and well-spaced races, that's what they should do with him.

lets do a head to head bet

I'll take Dunkirk, and you can choose any other horse in the race (this only happens if Dunkirk actually races in the KY Derby)

the bet is just based on where Dunkirk finished compared to where the horse you pick finished.

Loser has to buy the beers when you come to central Florida.