Larry Jones gets first drug positive ever

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by prudery

I would wait until the final test is in ... Jones does have a quarter of a century of cleanliness ...

I don't really care what his supposed record is. He gets form reversals on horses at all class levels that make him look shady to me. Because the reversals come with horses he's had all along - it doesn't get the same reaction that it would if the reversals came 1st off a claim or with a 1st time trainer switch.

An overage is overage. It's like when you are driving on the highway and you try to drive as fast as you can without driving fast enough to get picked up.

In some places the cops tend to let you can get away with more than others. In some situations you can have a guy pass you going 100 mph and you speed up 10 mph because you know if they get anyone - it will be the other guy first.

However, you're playing with fire...and sooner or late you'll get caught. It may take many years - but it will happen.

To me - the overage isn't a big deal - my opinion has already been formed by seeing enough of the guys horses.

The big deal here (at least to me anyway) is you have an owner who wants to make this out to be a case of sabotage!

[prudery]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't really care what his supposed record is. He gets form reversals on horses at all class levels that make him look shady to me. Because the reversals come with horses he's had all along - it doesn't get the same reaction that it would if the reversals came 1st off a claim or with a 1st time trainer switch.

An overage is overage. It's like when you are driving on the highway and you try to drive as fast as you can without driving fast enough to get picked up.

In some places the cops tend to let you can get away with more than others. In some situations you can have a guy pass you going 100 mph and you speed up 10 mph because you know if they get anyone - it will be the other guy first.

However, you're playing with fire...and sooner or late you'll get caught. It may take many years - but it will happen.

To me - the overage isn't a big deal - my opinion has already been formed by seeing enough of the guys horses.

The big deal here (at least to me anyway) is you have an owner who wants to make this out to be a case of sabotage!

Agreed--an overage is just that ... But as far as the form flip flops, can you consider that in 25 years with these dramatic improvements he still comes clean ??? Or are you suggesting he is that good ...

The guy used Clenbuterol--basically a brochodilator if I am not mistaken ...Legal stuff in legal proportions ... Nothing has been released about how much over the overrages are ... If they were minor, could that said horse suddenly inhale the competition ???

Admittedly, I have not followed the Jones profile like you have ... But I would prefer to wait out the subsequent testing although you make a case, as do those who see his record compared to other more busted trainers, and make a case for a misshap or even a frame job ...

I do agree that the owner was a bit florid in his denial, but the timing ...

[Bobby Fischer]

wheres the fatman when you actually need a cycling analogy?

I think more than half of competitive cyclists claim to suffer from exercise related asthma, so that they can take a certain amount of bronchodilator.

they probably know all the good masking agents too.

[Thunder Gulch]

The worst part of this is now the major media outlets have free reign to splash news of a failed drug test for a horse by Eight Belles trainer.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

The worst part of this is now the major media outlets have free reign to splash news of a failed drug test for a horse by Eight Belles trainer.

well, why not? it all happened. if racing doesn't want this kind of black eye, they should have taken steps long ago to keep it from happening--rather than smacking wrists and writing inconsequential fines.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

well, why not? it all happened. if racing doesn't want this kind of black eye, they should have taken steps long ago to keep it from happening--rather than smacking wrists and writing inconsequential fines.

What kind of fine or penalty exactly do you want? You guys seem to want blood but if this is the guys first violation in 25 years what exactly should happen to him? We dont know for sure but the medication in question is a legal drug that was probably found in a trace level above the allowable level. Calling him a cheater is a bit harsh especially considering his record. I admit I am a little skeptical about Jones and his seemingly meteroic rise from Ellis Park and his often strange form reversals. But this is hardly the smoking gun. I would like to know what "racing", outside of having a better system of testing and being a bit more open about what is happening with that testing, can do to avoid having positive tests?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What kind of fine or penalty exactly do you want? You guys seem to want blood but if this is the guys first violation in 25 years what exactly should happen to him? We dont know for sure but the medication in question is a legal drug that was probably found in a trace level above the allowable level. Calling him a cheater is a bit harsh especially considering his record. I admit I am a little skeptical about Jones and his seemingly meteroic rise from Ellis Park and his often strange form reversals. But this is hardly the smoking gun. I would like to know what "racing", outside of having a better system of testing and being a bit more open about what is happening with that testing, can do to avoid having positive tests?

"I admit I am a little skeptical about Jones and his seemingly meteroic rise from Ellis Park and his often strange form reversals."

You are only a little skeptical? LOL. I know you are being politically correct. I am more than a little skeptical. As you said, having a slight overage with chlenbuterol is not that big of a deal. I'd like to know what Jones is using in addition to chlenbuterol. I know it ain't oats and water.

It's funny how these dead-average trainers like Art Sherman win at a 10-12% clip for 20 years and then all of a sudden start winning at 30%.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What kind of fine or penalty exactly do you want? You guys seem to want blood but if this is the guys first violation in 25 years what exactly should happen to him? We dont know for sure but the medication in question is a legal drug that was probably found in a trace level above the allowable level. Calling him a cheater is a bit harsh especially considering his record. I admit I am a little skeptical about Jones and his seemingly meteroic rise from Ellis Park and his often strange form reversals. But this is hardly the smoking gun. I would like to know what "racing", outside of having a better system of testing and being a bit more open about what is happening with that testing, can do to avoid having positive tests?

i wasn't talking about jones specifically. it seems that every time something happens like this, there are folks who would rather it all go away, rather than have bad press. there are cheaters in this sport, some are very high profile, with top horses on the track. but now larry jones is in the mix, and some don't want to face the fact that his horse tested over. how it happened, i don't know. but this sport allows folks like steve asmussen and rick dutrow, with countless black marks on their record, continue to do business as usual.

so, my point in the post you replied to was that it's not the media's fault if they have a story. it's this sports fault for not taking the whole drug issue more seriously-both with what should and shouldn't be allowed, as well as WHO should still be allowed.

i'm waiting, as i'm sure you are, for exactly what kind of overage they are talking about. we all know some horses are given legal meds that must have cleared by race day, and don't. now, if this is a microscopic amount, considering jones' complete lack of past positives, i'd say he should be treated lightly since it's a first offense--but only if BOTH parts of that are true.

regarding what 'racing' can do, for starters they can show the worst repeat offenders the door. maybe the rate of positives would drop with their departure.