The Gods have finally spoken...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I understand all that. What I was wondering is why a quarter crack is worse than a grabbed quarter. My guess is that it's not always worse. It probably just depends on the severity of each. If one horse grabs a quarter badly and takes a huge chunk out of his foot, that would probably be much worse than a minor quarter crack. But if a horse slightly grabs a quarter, that's not going to be a big deal compared to a bad quarter crack.

That would be my guess, but I'm not positive. That's why I was asking Chuck. I do know that in the case of Touch Gold as compared to BB, Hofmans said that the grabbed quarter was nothing compared to BB's quarter crack.

perhaps a quarter crack would be worse as it is indicative of a hoof weakness, while a grab is just that, a horse injuring himself. once that grows out, you'd think it would be a solved problem. however, with big brown for instance, you have constant worries about his hooves.
they said on tv yesterday ( i think it was the mouth himself talking) that when the hoof guy was first called for BB, he asked if it was the front left hoof-so it sounds to me like he was expecting it, based on work done on big brown in the past.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I understand all that. What I was wondering is why a quarter crack is worse than a grabbed quarter. My guess is that it's not always worse. It probably just depends on the severity of each. If one horse grabs a quarter badly and takes a huge chunk out of his foot, that would probably be much worse than a minor quarter crack. But if a horse slightly grabs a quarter, that's not going to be a big deal compared to a bad quarter crack.

That would be my guess, but I'm not positive. That's why I was asking Chuck. I do know that in the case of Touch Gold as compared to BB, Hofmans said that the grabbed quarter was nothing compared to BB's quarter crack.

the danger with quarter cracks is infection underneath the initial crack especially after patching. Infection can just rot out much of the horses foot. With a grabbed quarter it is usually right there in front of you, they dont usually have an infection run deep. Of course this is talking in general terms.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Not to defend Dutrow, but there are tons of trainer out there who are just as bad as he is. Most of the top trainers cheat. Both Pletcher and Asmussen got caught blocking their horses with mepivicaine. That is about as unethical and immoral as you can get. That is making it so that the horse can't feel anything. Do you know how dangerous that is?

Not to mention Biancone who was using snake venom for the same purpose.

Not to defend Pletcher but his mepivicaine positive was a very low level that would not be considered a positive in the majority of racing states. I guess that is a defense but what I am saying is all positives are not equal though in the public's eyes they are. the other guy got a positive that by all accounts was not a trace level and was not a mistake hence the more severe punishment.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

perhaps a quarter crack would be worse as it is indicative of a hoof weakness, while a grab is just that, a horse injuring himself. once that grows out, you'd think it would be a solved problem. however, with big brown for instance, you have constant worries about his hooves.
they said on tv yesterday ( i think it was the mouth himself talking) that when the hoof guy was first called for BB, he asked if it was the front left hoof-so it sounds to me like he was expecting it, based on work done on big brown in the past.

I would guess that 90% of quartercracks are on the inside of the left front.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Agreed.....


I was curious though Andy if you saw the footage of BB losing his mind earlier in the day in his stall. He seemed incredibly rank and yet not a word from any of the heads about it.

When we originally complained about the holding or security barns this was one of the things we were referring to. It can really upset a nervous or high strung horse and throw them off their game. I am not suggesting that is the case here but it is another factor that you just cant quantify.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Aside from the obvious distain for the trainer/connections, the Gods may have been making a point to get the attention of the Breeders, in particular Three Chimineys, who reportedly inked a 50 million dollar agreement w/ IEAH before the race....

In fact, the Racing Gods just thought "Big Brown" wasn't an appropriately classy name for a Triple Crown winner. That's what did in Funny Cide and Smarty Jones, you know.

(I'm surprised they let "Omaha" slip through, but you know, maybe the regular Racing Gods were out sick that day.)

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

the danger with quarter cracks is infection underneath the initial crack especially after patching. Infection can just rot out much of the horses foot. With a grabbed quarter it is usually right there in front of you, they dont usually have an infection run deep. Of course this is talking in general terms.

Thanks Cannon.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I would guess that 90% of quartercracks are on the inside of the left front.

really? i wonder why.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not to defend Pletcher but his mepivicaine positive was a very low level that would not be considered a positive in the majority of racing states. I guess that is a defense but what I am saying is all positives are not equal though in the public's eyes they are. the other guy got a positive that by all accounts was not a trace level and was not a mistake hence the more severe punishment.

i would think some positives are based on the fact that not all horses metabolize at the same rate, so withdrawal times for some drugs are hit or miss. in many instances, these drugs have zero tolerance-look at the horse who travelled to australia, only to have to scratch out because he was still showing trace amounts of a drug too soon before the race-they didn't want to chance him having a level above what was allowed by races' end, so the trip was for nothing. i think this is what nipped pletcher, as well as some other trainers in times past. it's the danger of zero tolerance compared to an allowed trace amount.

[HaloWishingwell]

What does any God have to do with the results? Otherwise he would have had BIG BROWN beaten alot sooner. What's next, he performs better in hot weather?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

really? i wonder why.

left hand turns

Originally Posted by Danzig

really? i wonder why.

Now this is very interesting.
I know someone has put an impulse pad down
to ascertain the force applied at all points on
a hoof through the duration of the hoof strike.

It has to have been done. Its easy.
Cornell, ATM or some school with large
animal research has got to have this info.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i would think some positives are based on the fact that not all horses metabolize at the same rate, so withdrawal times for some drugs are hit or miss. in many instances, these drugs have zero tolerance-look at the horse who travelled to australia, only to have to scratch out because he was still showing trace amounts of a drug too soon before the race-they didn't want to chance him having a level above what was allowed by races' end, so the trip was for nothing. i think this is what nipped pletcher, as well as some other trainers in times past. it's the danger of zero tolerance compared to an allowed trace amount.

zero tolerence is a really bad idea for drugs that have a use in horses simply because of the difference between labs, lack of adequate research to determine accurate withdrawl times and environmental contamination. Many of the rules in place were written when the testing was far less advanced than it is now. The RMTC and its people do alot of talking about what they have done yet if you go to their website and punch in just about any drug in any state on their withdrawl time scale and you will draw a blank. Fix the system before you start leveling heavy penalties. Most trainers are all for severe penalties for violators of a serious nature but too many of the positives that are called now are simply due to confusing rules and lack of proper research. The RMTC is a good idea in theory yet as most things in this world it is very political and as such does not do effective job. If they would be a little more willing to admit what they dont know and they cant do the horseman would be a lot more welcome to helping them. Instead we are forced to fight much of what they propose simply because it is either not realistic or worse patently unfair. Fix the rules, do the research then lay the groundwork for tougher penalties. they have done it backwards for the most part.

Europe... Horses that run the other way.
I wonder what the % is there.

Geek overload.
Excuse please.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Now this is very interesting.
I know someone has put an impulse pad down
to ascertain the force applied at all points on
a hoof through the duration of the hoof strike.

It has to have been done. Its easy.
Cornell, ATM or some school with large
animal research has got to have this info.

Cornell and A&M are cow schools

I just told you why

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Cornell and A&M are cow schools

I just told you why

Yes you did and I did not see it in time.
So 90% in Europe on the other side?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes you did and I did not see it in time.
So 90% in Europe on the other side?

You need to do a little research on euro racing and you will be able to answer it yourself.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You need to do a little research on euro racing and you will be able to answer it yourself.

I did.
Cant find anything.

Please dont strike me if I come to a DT event.

[estreetposse]

Cornell is not just a cow school anymore...my neighbor's daughter is enrolled in this program and her mother is a teacher of Equine Science at Suny Cobleskill:

http://web.vet.cornell.edu/public/cuerp/


Also running drug tests for the tracks:

http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/labsect/equine.asp

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

Cornell is not just a cow school anymore...my neighbor's daughter is enrolled in this program and her mother is a teacher of Equine Science at Suny Cobleskill:

http://web.vet.cornell.edu/public/cuerp/


Also running drug tests for the tracks:

http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/labsect/equine.asp

I was only messing around with Peegarden