Clemens: BigFATLIar

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Cannon, makes sense for Congress to be involved here. As you said, and it's the same question I asked a while ago.....what would they be doing if Clemens had admitted from the start that he did it? They wouldn't have a thing to do. They don't have anything to do now. They can't prosecute guys that did it so what is the point? Scuds is saying that Congress should go after these criminals but does he realize that Congress is only going after the guys that DENIED using the stuff. The ones that are the ADMITTED CRIMINALS, the guys like Vina and Pettitte, they aren't the ones Congress is going after. So why can't Scuds understand that? They aren't going after the guys that are guilty because there is nothing they can do about it and since there is nothing they can do about it, why are they wasting their time and taxpayer money to find out if Roger did something that probably 70-80% of the public already believes he did? Why are they wasting taxpayer money to find out if Bonds lied? They know they can't get Bonds for actually using. This stuff is all so stupid. Scuds is saying that Bonds should be in prison. But Congress can't put him in prison for using the stuff. They can't put Pettitte in prison for using it. They can't put Clemens in for using. They can't put ANYBODY in for using. So what was the point of the Mitchell investigation in the first place?

You act as if this is a new thing. There are congressional investigations into all kinds of crap other than sports that you would consider a waste of time and money. I will again state why congress thinks it necessary (I dont necessarily know because some of the other crap they have investigated I deem much more worthless)
1. Baseball's antitrust status which congress could easily take away if federal laws are being broken. They enjoy a special business privilege (possibly unfair), go back and look at these debates.

2. It first started with BALCO investigation which was a company also linked to Olympic tampering, a Federally funded endevour. Links between trainers and BAlco led to baseball. Then of course it was time to take the stage for the senators and congressmen.

3. Kids are doing this stuff on a high school level, it has crept into school. Our damn state is now having to spend taxpayer money on testing. This trickled in from pro sports to college, college to High School. My state with a REPUBLICAN governor has deemed this a health risk. I would much rather a kid who is still developing physically, smoke pot a few times, than mix HGH with steriods one time.

4. ANd NOW PERJURY. What is it that you do not get about Perjury?

Arlen Specter little foray is kind of strange.
Probably a power trip sort of thing.
But this
guy is of huge importance on the justice committe.
If Arlen Specter was not around, we would still have
a Justice Dept. that was a complete and utter joke,
and the laughing stock of all other countries who actually
look to the US for insights into well thought out law.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

1. Baseball's antitrust status which congress could easily take away if federal laws are being broken. They enjoy a special business privilege (possibly unfair), go back and look at these debates.

It is funny that this is mentioned but it really isnt that important anymore. First off Congress would have to overturn 3 seperate Supreme Court decisions all in favor of granting baseball an excemption because they have never felt that it violates the Sherman Act and does not deem baseball as interstate commerce as defined by the Sherman Act.

The truth is that anyone is free to start a baseball league to compete with MLB and as shown by the USFL vs NFL case the courts will not hold the leagues responsible if any such leagues are attempted and fail.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is funny that this is mentioned but it really isnt that important anymore. First off Congress would have to overturn 3 seperate Supreme Court decisions all in favor of granting baseball an excemption because they have never felt that it violates the Sherman Act and does not deem baseball as interstate commerce as defined by the Sherman Act.

The truth is that anyone is free to start a baseball league to compete with MLB and as shown by the USFL vs NFL case the courts will not hold the leagues responsible if any such leagues are attempted and fail.

congress doesn't overturn supreme court decisions. they just pass new laws.

you're correct that the exception for baseball exists because of a 1922 supreme court decision and not an act of congress. but the decision itself leaves it to congress to clarify the issue.

baseball might be free to explore actions against a competitor league that the nfl couldn't because it's exempt from the sherman act. so i'm not sure how the usfl example supports your point.

there have been occasional attempts in congress to address this. john conyers introduced the most recent bill.

there is no real reason that the nfl (or any other league) should be subject to the sherman act and not baseball.

you probably wouldn't see any new major league in the wake of the removal of the exemption. but you would eventually see a different minor league system not tied in directly with major league teams. the minor league system as it exists couldn't be legal absent the exemption.

that'll probably happen just after clemens admits he perjured himself.

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

congress doesn't overturn supreme court decisions. they just pass new laws.

you're correct that the exception for baseball exists because of a 1922 supreme court decision and not an act of congress. but the decision itself leaves it to congress to clarify the issue.

baseball might be free to explore actions against a competitor league that the nfl couldn't because it's exempt from the sherman act. so i'm not sure how the usfl example supports your point.

there have been occasional attempts in congress to address this. john conyers introduced the most recent bill.

there is no real reason that the nfl (or any other league) should be subject to the sherman act and not baseball.

you probably wouldn't see any new major league in the wake of the removal of the exemption. but you would eventually see a different minor league system not tied in directly with major league teams. the minor league system as it exists couldn't be legal absent the exemption.

that'll probably happen just after clemens admits he perjured himself.

I did not say it was likely,
it has been used as a threat
however. Baseball is so incredibly lucrative
that hell freezes over before there is any change.

The bolded above has been mentioned before
and more often now. If the public really cared
about the exemption...no way.
The players, owners themselves
would not ever try to threaten this as the money flows.

No Al Davis types.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

baseball might be free to explore actions against a competitor league that the nfl couldn't because it's exempt from the sherman act. so i'm not sure how the usfl example supports your point.

Clue me in to the competitor league that baseball is worried about? The USFL example fits my point because if the anti trust exemption was dropped a group may try to start a league with the sole purpose of eventually suing baseball for having a monopoly and either get awarded damages or get expansion teams that are now worth hundreds of millions adopted by MLB. That is what the USFL was and did.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

you probably wouldn't see any new major league in the wake of the removal of the exemption. but you would eventually see a different minor league system not tied in directly with major league teams. the minor league system as it exists couldn't be legal absent the exemption.

Then explain how the NHL and NBA can have minor leagues set up in a similar fashion without the antitrust exemption?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Then explain how the NHL and NBA can have minor leagues set up in a similar fashion without the antitrust exemption?

So they are exempt?

I thought baseball was unique in its exemption.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

So they are exempt?

I thought baseball was unique in its exemption.

Baseball is and God was saying that if they lost the excemption that the minor league systmem would be affected. However I dont think that is true and it seems that the other leagues minor leagues would be proof of that since those leagues dont have the exemption.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I hear, read, and listen to people who scream bloody murder that Congress should not involve itself --or, as frequently claimed, "waste time" and "don't they have better things to do" -- in investigating steroids in baseball, because, after all, it's a sport.

If you look at baseball as a multibillion dollar business as opposed to a sport, then maybe there is merit to an investigation.

This reminds me of occasions when some argue here that Thoroughbred racing is sport, yet others dismiss those arguments as naive, because, after all, Thoroughbred racing is a business.

What other business does congress investigate because of the habits of the businesses employees?