The Weak and Confused: Charlatan Didn’t Win a Bloated Race in Saudi Arabia

[King Glorious]

The thing is, from me, you haven't heard talk that Charlatan is a great horse. I'm not looking to put him in the hall of fame. I wouldn't dare compare him to even the better horses we've seen in the last few years, horses like Gun Runner and American Pharoah. For me, this was never about his standing as a great horse. It's only been a question of whether or not he could be the best horse of this year.

I agree with you that in order to be a great horse, the more different things you can show, the better. At the same time, I don't think you can discount a horse's brilliance simply because of the lack of certain things on the resume. Nobody that watched Gayle Sayers disputes how great he was even though he didn't have the longevity that Emmitt Smith had. Sandy Koufax didn't have the career that Bob Gibson had but people say he was every bit as good if not better. Most veteran observers of football say Pat Mahomes is one of, if not the most talented quarterbacks they have ever seen even though his resume will likely never match Tom Brady's or Peyton Manning's

There is actual and there is speculative. I've never put Charlatan in the great category in comparison to all-timers. But I don't think he'd have to be in order to be the best of this year.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I agree with you that in order to be a great horse, the more different things you can show, the better. At the same time, I don't think you can discount a horse's brilliance simply because of the lack of certain things on the resume. Nobody that watched Gayle Sayers disputes how great he was even though he didn't have the longevity that Emmitt Smith had. Sandy Koufax didn't have the career that Bob Gibson had but people say he was every bit as good if not better. Most veteran observers of football say Pat Mahomes is one of, if not the most talented quarterbacks they have ever seen even though his resume will likely never match Tom Brady's or Peyton Manning's.

Not good comparisons. I'm no expert on their careers, but I presume all those players displayed multiple talents and skills to earn their reputations despite abbreviated careers. They weren't limited to being adept at just one thing.

Charlatan is a brilliant sprinter that has yet to stretch out to any great effect. He has shown no versatility, little courage, and no ability to relax in the early stages or overcome adversity. I guess you can he doesn't completely fold under pressure, though. And he ships well.

To this point he's like a pitcher that can throw a 100 mph fastball but has no control and can't pitch a complete game.

There is actual and there is speculative. I've never put Charlatan in the great category in comparison to all-timers. But I don't think he'd have to be in order to be the best of this year.

You're probably right, but he will probably have to run more than twice.

As it stands now I would speculate the earliest we will see him is in the Alysheba in May. That's an 8.5 furlong, non-grade 1 carded on a day when Churchill Downs is invariably tailored to be speed-oriented, so it probably won't answer too many questions in the Charlataniad aside from whether or not our hero can overcome the dreaded First Turn.

But really, with limited time on his side, he needs to go for the Met Mile, Whitney, and Woodward or Goodwood to confirm his reputation and his purported abilities.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Not good comparisons. I'm no expert on their careers, but I presume all those players displayed multiple talents and skills to earn their reputations despite abbreviated careers. They weren't limited to being adept at just one thing.

Charlatan is a brilliant sprinter that has yet to stretch out to any great effect. He has shown no versatility, little courage, and no ability to relax in the early stages or overcome adversity. I guess you can he doesn't completely fold under pressure, though. And he ships well.

To this point he's like a pitcher that can throw a 100 mph fastball but has no control and can't pitch a complete game.


You're probably right, but he will probably have to run more than twice.

As it stands now I would speculate the earliest we will see him is in the Alysheba in May. That's an 8.5 furlong, non-grade 1 carded on a day when Churchill Downs is invariably tailored to be speed-oriented, so it probably won't answer too many questions in the Charlataniad aside from whether or not our hero can overcome the dreaded First Turn.

But really, with limited time on his side, he needs to go for the Met Mile, Whitney, and Woodward or Goodwood to confirm his reputation and his purported abilities.

You're giving him more credit than I am. I wouldn't even call him a brilliant sprinter. King Glorious, Lost in the Fog, Artax, Safely Kept, those were brilliant sprinters. But I think calling him brilliant off of beating Nashville, who I did think was very good but obviously failed his class test, was a little less impressive than his Saudi Arabian effort.

[goodcopy]

You have got to be kidding, Charlatan is at best a quality Gr.1 or Gr.2 stakes horse that is still developing, not even the best or the favorite for H.O.Y..
Maxfield, True Timber ,Guarana, Happy Saver and others still to be seen.
Comparing any horses mentioned in this mindless dribble of articles and post leads me to believe you are all on Drugs!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by goodcopy

You have got to be kidding, Charlatan is at best a quality Gr.1 or Gr.2 stakes horse that is still developing, not even the best or the favorite for H.O.Y..
Maxfield, True Timber ,Guarana, Happy Saver and others still to be seen.
Comparing any horses mentioned in this mindless dribble of articles and post leads me to believe you are all on Drugs!

Surely, you've got to understand the absolute silliness of saying Maxfield is legit but Charlatan isn't right? And then to mention Guarana just makes it outright dumb. To be clear, this isn't to say that neither of them aren't as talented cause they both could actually be more talented. But to this point, neither has done more than Charlatan and haven't shown any propensity to be healthier. Same with Happy Saver. He's run even few times than Happy Saver.

But True Timber? The same horse that lost 13 straight races before winning the Cigar? His FIRST stakes win in 29 career starts?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Surely, you've got to understand the absolute silliness of saying Maxfield is legit but Charlatan isn't right? And then to mention Guarana just makes it outright dumb. To be clear, this isn't to say that neither of them aren't as talented cause they both could actually be more talented. But to this point, neither has done more than Charlatan and haven't shown any propensity to be healthier. Same with Happy Saver. He's run even few times than Happy Saver.

But True Timber? The same horse that lost 13 straight races before winning the Cigar? His FIRST stakes win in 29 career starts?

Guarana has won three Grade 1s, one of them at 9F. She may not be better than Charlatan but she has done more.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Guarana has won three Grade 1s, one of them at 9F. She may not be better than Charlatan but she has done more.

Ok. If you want to be technical. He's also won a grade one at 9f, despite what the official record shows. We all saw the race.

[goodcopy]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Surely, you've got to understand the absolute silliness of saying Maxfield is legit but Charlatan isn't right? And then to mention Guarana just makes it outright dumb. To be clear, this isn't to say that neither of them aren't as talented cause they both could actually be more talented. But to this point, neither has done more than Charlatan and haven't shown any propensity to be healthier. Same with Happy Saver. He's run even few times than Happy Saver.

But True Timber? The same horse that lost 13 straight races before winning the Cigar? His FIRST stakes win in 29 career starts?

Charlatan did not win the Saudi Cup,has not won a H.O.Y. and no jewels of a triple crown race.
By the way the best horse he beat was Basin in the Arkansas derby under suspicious drug controversy.
Boby Baffert is not the only trainer in the world!

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by goodcopy

You have got to be kidding, Charlatan is at best a quality Gr.1 or Gr.2 stakes horse that is still developing, not even the best or the favorite for H.O.Y..
Maxfield, True Timber ,Guarana, Happy Saver and others still to be seen.
Comparing any horses mentioned in this mindless dribble of articles and post leads me to believe you are all on Drugs!

Most ironic post ever?