FBI Raids at Calder and Palm Meadows

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Konk

I would suggest it would be a good move for all the owners who have used these bottom feeders to suspended from racing anywhere indefinitely until all is sorted out. Like when a police officer is involved in a shooting, he is taken off the streets until all is figured out. Time for a no tolerance stance.

As far as out of racing testing, maybe we should demand all horses be tested at least once every 28 days, at owner's expense, in order to remain eligible to run.

Designer Steroids.

[Dunbar]

I don't buy this assumption that EVERY owner must have known. There's a bit of grab the pitchforks and storm the castle mentality going on.

If the owners HAD to know, did the tracks HAVE to know also? Should we suspend/shut down every track that allowed these guys to run their horses?

[moses]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I don't buy this assumption that EVERY owner must have known. There's a bit of grab the pitchforks and storm the castle mentality going on.

If the owners HAD to know, did the tracks HAVE to know also? Should we suspend/shut down every track that allowed these guys to run their horses?

I think you’re right. There are definitely owners who knew (Rockingham Ranch, for example). There are some who maybe should have known but never asked questions. And there are probably some who genuinely believed a guy like Servis was just that good.

Take the Wests. How long have they been in the business? 40 years? How much money do they have? I don’t think they’d be on board with what Servis was doing. Again...maybe they should have asked questions. But it’s hard for me to imagine that they intentionally sent a horse to Servis knowing the details of what he was doing. For successful, wealthy owners, I think Servis had a built in excuse and it resonated with owners. A lot of these people are used to people resenting their success and assuming they haven’t completely earned what they’ve got. Even if we assume they might have been aware of the rumors, they also may have been skeptical of them. Success breeds contempt and nobody knows that better than the super wealthy. Just a thought.

[jms62]

Every owner that sent horses to Servis and Navarro knew that those trainers where under question for Years and sent their horses anyway. Claiming they didn't know is laughable.. As a matter of fact it is mind boggling that anyone involved in the sport at any level is somehow surprised that these guys were cheats... I see so many "statements" being issued from different organizations involved in the sport. AYFKM? It would be best if they just didn't respond instead of now looking like ****ing hypocrites who stood around and did NOTHING for YEARS while this **** went on.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by jms62

Every owner that sent horses to Servis and Navarro knew that those trainers where under question for Years and sent their horses anyway. Claiming they didn't know is laughable.. As a matter of fact it is mind boggling that anyone involved in the sport at any level is somehow surprised that these guys were cheats... I see so many "statements" being issued from different organizations involved in the sport. AYFKM? It would be best if they just didn't respond instead of now looking like ****ing hypocrites who stood around and did NOTHING for YEARS while this **** went on.

I was going to respond also but you summed it up perfectly here.

If you send horses to move up trainers that win in the 30% range you’re co-signing on with whatever they do to attain that gaudy win %

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I don't buy this assumption that EVERY owner must have known. There's a bit of grab the pitchforks and storm the castle mentality going on.

If the owners HAD to know, did the tracks HAVE to know also? Should we suspend/shut down every track that allowed these guys to run their horses?

They may not have known the specifics of what their trainers were doing, but the idea that they had no idea these guys were taking an edge to win at 30+% in a sport where winning at 15% is an accomplishment is laughable. And yeah, racetracks should share some blame too.

[moses]

Originally Posted by jms62

Every owner that sent horses to Servis and Navarro knew that those trainers where under question for Years and sent their horses anyway. Claiming they didn't know is laughable.. As a matter of fact it is mind boggling that anyone involved in the sport at any level is somehow surprised that these guys were cheats... I see so many "statements" being issued from different organizations involved in the sport. AYFKM? It would be best if they just didn't respond instead of now looking like ****ing hypocrites who stood around and did NOTHING for YEARS while this **** went on.

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I was going to respond also but you summed it up perfectly here.

If you send horses to move up trainers that win in the 30% range you’re co-signing on with whatever they do to attain that gaudy win %

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

They may not have known the specifics of what their trainers were doing, but the idea that they had no idea these guys were taking an edge to win at 30+% in a sport where winning at 15% is an accomplishment is laughable. And yeah, racetracks should share some blame too.

I generally agree with you guys...and that at the very least these owners SHOULD have known or asked more questions...but I think we are looking at it from the perspective of a bettor, not the perspective of a very wealthy owner.

I’m hesitant to say anything that even remotely defends them, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume what they did and didn’t know. Like I said, Rockingham Ranch appears to have been very much involved. I don’t think that’ll be the case for every owner. But yes, almost every owner should have known something was up.

And as an aside, Tom Albertrani and Barclay Tagg apparently use the same veterinarian as Servis. I’m not going to assume that either of those guys are somehow implicated by this though. I think we’ve got to see where things stand when the dust settles.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by moses

I generally agree with you guys...and that at the very least these owners SHOULD have known or asked more questions...but I think we are looking at it from the perspective of a bettor, not the perspective of a very wealthy owner.

I’m hesitant to say anything that even remotely defends them, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume what they did and didn’t know. Like I said, Rockingham Ranch appears to have been very much involved. I don’t think that’ll be the case for every owner. But yes, almost every owner should have known something was up.

And as an aside, Tom Albertrani and Barclay Tagg apparently use the same veterinarian as Servis. I’m not going to assume that either of those guys are somehow implicated by this though. I think we’ve got to see where things stand when the dust settles.

Moses with all due respect here since you seem to genuinely be a smart and nice guy. What you are saying would imply that the owners knew nothing whatsoever about the sport which they were investing huge sums of money in. They were all very successful in their core business. Do you think that they would just blindly spend millions of dollars without any research whatsoever nor seek expert opinions? We are not talking about someone that puts a couple hundred bucks into a 100 person Partnership here..

[Benny]

couldn't copy the data from the
searchbut the 2019 trainers is interesting

current trainer stats gulfstream 2020


http://www.equibase.com/stats/View.c...trainer&rbt=TB

monmouth 2019 meet

http://www.equibase.com/stats/View.c...trainer&rbt=TB

[moses]

Originally Posted by jms62

Moses with all due respect here since you seem to genuinely be a smart and nice guy. What you are saying would imply that the owners knew nothing whatsoever about the sport which they were investing huge sums of money in. They were all very successful in their core business. Do you think that they would just blindly spend millions of dollars without any research whatsoever nor seek expert opinions? We are not talking about someone that puts a couple hundred bucks into a 100 person Partnership here..

Ugh. I’m struggling with this because a large part of me really doesn’t want to accept that people could be so terrible.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by moses

Ugh. I’m struggling with this because a large part of me really doesn’t want to accept that people could be so terrible.

They are. Most gazillionaires are. Time to cope with that reality my man.