Pretty Neat Pharaoh v Secretariat video

[NavalOrange]

AP was closing the gap over the last half mile. Not sure what the point of comparing times is. We all know Secretariat was a freak with the large heart and all. I would not put too much stock in AP's times. Why push him to run faster. Isn't the goal to win races. Which he does by working hard early to establish a great trip, and then finishes his races well. Many times we make excuses for horses because they have bad trips. AP's talent is what drives all his great trips, not racing luck. I will not argue his place in history, just like I would not argue any other sporting great from different era's. Instead I am enjoying watching this special animal. I hope he stays healthy and can continue his three year old compaign.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by NavalOrange

AP was closing the gap over the last half mile. Not sure what the point of comparing times is. We all know Secretariat was a freak with the large heart and all. I would not put too much stock in AP's times. Why push him to run faster. Isn't the goal to win races. Which he does by working hard early to establish a great trip, and then finishes his races well. Many times we make excuses for horses because they have bad trips. AP's talent is what drives all his great trips, not racing luck. I will not argue his place in history, just like I would not argue any other sporting great from different era's. Instead I am enjoying watching this special animal. I hope he stays healthy and can continue his three year old compaign.

When has AP had to work hard early to establish a great trip?

[tector]

I think we just should put aside Secretariat's Belmont--it is Bob Beamon's Mexico City jump, squared, or cubed. And unlike Beamon's breed (humans), thoroughbreds (at least in the US) are not evolving to excel at the accomplishment (1.5m on dirt)--in fact they are going in the opposite direction. Big Red's world record of 2:24 on dirt--achieved on the perfect race track (an exact 1.5 wide oval) is not likely going anywhere, ever, no matter how much the track gets souped up.

[tector]

My calculation is that Easy Goer's 1989 Belmont (a 122 BSF, the highest of any TC race since the numbers were first published publicly in 1987) would have been very near 2:24 (possibly under) on Saturday's souped up track. Of course that is over a quarter of a century ago now (you are getting old, folks), and no American 3YOs are running anything near 122 BSFs at 1.5m on dirt nowadays.

So for just the raw 2:24 to get bettered, it would likely have to be some super foreign horse with undiluted stamina breeding on a crazy fast Belmont strip that day, running the race of his life.

And if you accept Secretariat at 139, then this past Saturday he runs somewhere under 2:21 (using 5 lengths/sec at 1.5m, and assuming his trip in the time machine took nothing out of him).

[NavalOrange]

Originally Posted by pointman

When has AP had to work hard early to establish a great trip?

Work hard is a relative term. But he definitely exerts a bit of energy early in races to setup his trip. I think that is part of his talent. Of course if he gets to run against the best older horses, that will continue to be tested.