2015: American Pharoah becomes 12th Triple Crown winner

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Has Materiality even ever won a race wire-to-wire? He was far back early in the Derby and finished well.

Semantics, Rollo. He pressed a still maiden in the slop in his maiden breaker, pressed a confirmed quitter in the Islamorada, and pressed an average Bluegrass Singer before dueling with Upstart, who would later just quit in Kentucky.

Frosted's off the pace effort in the Kentucky Derby was clearly better than Materiality's off the pace effort, and if his saving grace, "pressing" AP, is what folks are holding out hope for - well, you can see the what he was up against when successful doing so in the past.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Semantics, Rollo. He pressed a still maiden in the slop in his maiden breaker, pressed a confirmed quitter in the Islamorada, and pressed an average Bluegrass Singer before dueling with Upstart, who would later just quit in Kentucky.

Frosted's off the pace effort in the Kentucky Derby was clearly better than Materiality's off the pace effort, and if his saving grace, "pressing" AP, is what folks are holding out hope for - well, you can see the what he was up against when successful doing so in the past.

"Clearly better" usually means more than one out of ten people that know anything about watching races would agree with you. I would have trouble finding one out of 100 that actually think Frosted's Derby effort was "clearly better" than the effort of Materiality.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

"Clearly better" usually means more than one out of ten people that know anything about watching races would agree with you. I would have trouble finding one out of 100 that actually think Frosted's Derby effort was "clearly better" than the effort of Materiality.

Right. Materiality had a clear run from the inside, and still finished 3 lengths off a horse that needed to work a trip, settle, move earlier, and managed to close into and round out the Super...oh, and ran 28 feet further.

I would have hoped that Materiality would have run a decent last quarter, as the horse was lost for the better part of the race. Keen Ice must be considered a real threat too, following this line of reasoning.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Right. Materiality had a clear run from the inside, and still finished 3 lengths off a horse that needed to work a trip, settle, move earlier, and managed to close into and round out the Super...oh, and ran 28 feet further.

I would have hoped that Materiality would have run a decent last quarter, as the horse was lost for the better part of the race. Keen Ice must be considered a real threat too, following this line of reasoning.

What were you up to between the 1/2 mile pole and the 1/4 pole during the Kentucky Derby?

Couldn't have possibly have been watching the race.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What were you up to between the 1/2 mile pole and the 1/4 pole during the Kentucky Derby?

Couldn't have possibly have been watching the race.

He wasn't watching the start either.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He wasn't watching the start either.

Thanks, I completely took that for granted. In my defense, here California, we've been taught by the stewards that problems at the start couldn't possibly effect the outcome of a race.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Thanks, I completely took that for granted. In my defense, here California, we've been taught by the stewards that problems at the start couldn't possibly effect the outcome of a race.

Here too....despite it being the most important part of the race....where the most stuff happens that can dramatically affect the running of the race. It's fascinating actually.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Thanks, I completely took that for granted. In my defense, here California, we've been taught by the stewards that problems at the start couldn't possibly effect the outcome of a race.

So someone should have come down because the horse dwelt for a split second, or because after he was clear and running in company it became clear that this "presser" had no chance of staying and was taken back? which is it?

Oh, perhaps they should have declared the the entire race a non-wagering even and returned all of the pools because there's no way to prove the starter didn't possibly compromised his start

Whatever. I think the horse is dressed up, based on what he has proven on the track, you think he has talent. So be it - we'll find out soon enough

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Right. Materiality had a clear run from the inside, and still finished 3 lengths off a horse that needed to work a trip, settle, move earlier, and managed to close into and round out the Super...oh, and ran 28 feet further.

I would have hoped that Materiality would have run a decent last quarter, as the horse was lost for the better part of the race. Keen Ice must be considered a real threat too, following this line of reasoning.

I'm not certain we've watched the same race if you're characterizing Materiality's trip as clean. And I'm putting that VERY delicately.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Right. Materiality had a clear run from the inside, and still finished 3 lengths off a horse that needed to work a trip, settle, move earlier, and managed to close into and round out the Super...oh, and ran 28 feet further.

I would have hoped that Materiality would have run a decent last quarter, as the horse was lost for the better part of the race. Keen Ice must be considered a real threat too, following this line of reasoning.

This isn't what happened, but I'm not arguing this with you. It's not clear who ran the better race. Most people I respect believe it was Materiality, which doesn't mean that others don't believe it was Frosted that ran the better race. I'm always open to that discussion, and there has to be a certain amount of subjectivity, as it can't be clearly established one way or another.