It happened again! (End tote malfunction)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How do you know?

I've got waffles to make, beer to brew, and have to coach a few female tennis players in the morning, so I'm off to bed.

Don't forget the bobsled workouts

[SentToStud]

I think past posting goes on. I think it all happens very soon after the start of the race and gets put through in the "flood" of wagers that "hit the system" all at once. No doubt in my mind it happens.

Reminds me of the old days at Maywood when the bell didn't go off until the horses had almost hit the first turn. The $50 window tellers were working solely for a few people with 1mtp or less. The bettor would call the horse that got off the gate the best and the teller would punch as many $50 win tickets as possible.

The biggest fixes were when the horse that left the gate quickest and got the lead broke stride in the first turn.

Flukey Stokes, Buddy Bear, Willy The Wimp. Those boys ruled the clubhouse.

[Payson Dave]

....I can take a hint....I'll discuss the 8th at Turfway elsewhere...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You're flipping more than Mitt Romney here. First you blew off what you said, now you are admitting it.

My comment was directed at you, because you made the initial comment. But I wasn't complaining to you. Just pointing out you were incorrect the first time.

No, you are not voice of backside USA, but you like to play it here sometimes. Can't really have it both ways. I'm sure you would have called someone out on a s hitty comment as well. it's okay to be wrong sometimes, the Dee Tee faithful will still love you and defend you blindly.

Huh? How can I flip about what I said? It is right there in black and white. You and CJ seem to have some personal anomisity with your snide comments. I dont know why but suit yourself.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I think past posting goes on. I think it all happens very soon after the start of the race and gets put through in the "flood" of wagers that "hit the system" all at once. No doubt in my mind it happens.

Reminds me of the old days at Maywood when the bell didn't go off until the horses had almost hit the first turn. The $50 window tellers were working solely for a few people with 1mtp or less. The bettor would call the horse that got off the gate the best and the teller would punch as many $50 win tickets as possible.

The biggest fixes were when the horse that left the gate quickest and got the lead broke stride in the first turn.

Flukey Stokes, Buddy Bear, Willy The Wimp. Those boys ruled the clubhouse.

I'm sure that in the old days past posting happened with a far more frequent degree than it does now.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Nothing personal man. I didn't care for your comment, that's it.

I guess not since you are still bringing it up a month later.

I miss having a rattle.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

So not allowing any horses to enter the starting gate until the stewards have confirmed all wagering pools have closed, still isn't a good idea ?

Are we learning yet ?

They did this in KY after the BC scandal and stopped because of complaints from the players, Mr Teacher.

[Scav]

They did it at Arlington and people were bitching up a storm about how they were 'in the gate' and yadda yadda.

No one is ever happy about anything. Someone is always pissed off

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yes, and you weren't once able to bet the P6 after 4 races were run either I would imagine.

I don't know if it is rampant. Phil provided some statistical data I've seen other places as well that are certainly worth investigating. The problem is, the tracks have no incentive to investigate. It would probably be very bad if they did and found out past posting was going on.

It doesn't change that there shouldn't be any chance for this to happen. There is more than enough technology available to prevent this from EVER happening. Why is this mechanical in the first place? That is ridiculous.

That is the real problem here. What do the tracks have to gain by spending money investigating it? They are only going to do it if they feel enough pressure to do so.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

what would jesus do?

turn more water into whine?

[cmorioles]

I realize Cannon is a decent guy. I also know he usually seems to be very pro bettor. This is why I guess I let the "get over it" comment bug me. I should have dropped it, but I didn't. It is all part of my overall frustration with the poor technology in the sport. Tote technology, timing (including run ups), horrible chart calls, poor drug testing, ridiculous online betting situation, etc.

I shouldn't have stooped to anything personal. The bobsledding thing pissed me off since Cannon knows nothing about me or why I'm in Belgium, and it had nothing to do with anything. I suppose it was funny at some level I guess. I reacted poorly. Oh well, time to move on.

[TheSpyder]

I would guess, and I'm saying guess, that there are far more fixed races than any problem with a sticky stop betting button. It's nice for all the editorial comments here but hard to see any conclusion that will really manner.

In a sport that is given life by people's opinions, it so entertaining to read views on any particular subject here as all of us handicap life differently.

For me the biggest issue in the sport today is me winning the next damn race. That, and the blatant discrimination against 6 foot tall jockeys...it's a shame.

But what do I know?

Spyder

[gamblin4ever]

Just stop the wagering @ 3-5min b4 post. All wagers should be in by the start of the race. If a bettor can't get his/her wager in by that time, sorry should bet earlier. I've been shut out @ the windows many of times by waiting until the last second. Just my opinion

[3kings]

Instead of 3-5 minutes before, perhaps we should bet all the races before the 1st post. Better yet, if one of your horse scratches you just lose your entire wager.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I realize Cannon is a decent guy. I also know he usually seems to be very pro bettor. This is why I guess I let the "get over it" comment bug me. I should have dropped it, but I didn't. It is all part of my overall frustration with the poor technology in the sport. Tote technology, timing (including run ups), horrible chart calls, poor drug testing, ridiculous online betting situation, etc.

I shouldn't have stooped to anything personal. The bobsledding thing pissed me off since Cannon knows nothing about me or why I'm in Belgium, and it had nothing to do with anything. I suppose it was funny at some level I guess. I reacted poorly. Oh well, time to move on.

I think that if you read my posts in the original thread you would see that I said if it is happening all the time or someone is gaining an advantage than it is a big problem. Instead of reacting negatively to one comment like you guys did at the time and again yesterday. Perhaps I was wrongly assuming that the incident was an isolated case as was explained to me not only in the print media but by an exec at a major track related to the situation. Obviously it is happening at a greater frequency than first realized but I still have a hard time believing that tracks can tie individual tickets to players and chase down uncashed tickets through wagering accounts but cant definitively tell you that the pools are closed on time.

I will say that the attitude towards the horsemen and women on this site and others by bettors is troublesome. The relationship is a symbiotic one where each side cant exist without the other. Andy has said on many occasions that he feels that we are all in this together which I totally agree with. I was exposed to this sport at a young age through gambling (which in itself may be troubling) and I realize the importance of the dedication and tenacity of a group of hard core players that keeps the revenues flowing through the windows despite the long list of issues and little voice to speak for them. I realize as do many other horsemen that we need you guys to keep the sport alive. But you need us too. You need the thousands of people who dedicate their lives to putting on the show, most for a pittance. You need the thousands of owners that invest in horseflesh knowing that the odds of them breaking even are long and making money are even further remote. Your pick 4 investment may be an hour long deal for you but when I buy a yearling I am investing not only the purchase price of the horse but tens of thousands of dollars in expenses and in some cases years of time. To say that we should not have an interest in artificial surfaces because they are hard to handicap is wrong. Finding joy in horses getting injured because it 'proves' you were 'right' is wrong. We didn't invent these surfaces but we have to deal with them just as you do. Not all of our horses handle it and it is a major pain in the ass when that happens. Maybe bettors are pissed off when the tracks made the change without regard for them but Keeneland didn't give us a vote and probably wouldn't have listened anyway. As I said before the condescending attitude that as a bettor you are paying my salary is just bs. Try telling the state policeman giving you a ticket, that you pay his salary via taxes and he must listen to you. You are playing the for the same reason that we are owning and training, to make money. I dont buy horses to provide entertainment for you to wager on just as you dont wager to provide purses for me. So at least respect the fact that to some the welfare of the horses in their care, in many cases their friends, means as much to them as wagering security and clean racing means to you. Sorry for the ramble and the bobsled and waffle boy remarks.

[cmorioles]

I agree with nearly everything you say. We definitely are in this together, no doubt. I'll try to remember that from now on. I think the thing is, we all put our self interests first naturally.

As for the synthetic stuff, I don't think I've ever taken joy in a horse getting injured. I know I haven't. I don't like synthetics as a fan of the sport. As a bettor, at least now, I'm actually loving it. But that is neither here nor there.

The only points I ever brought up about poly (or the other stuff) were to refute the ridiculous propaganda that was shoved down bettor's throats (and horsemen) with no proof whatsoever for months. Most of it, in fact, has been proven false or at the very least remains nothing but conjecture. Somehow, if you mentioned the races were boring and uninspiring, that meant you hated horses and didn't care if they were hurt, which is nonsense.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I agree with nearly everything you say. We definitely are in this together, no doubt. I'll try to remember that from now on. I think the thing is, we all put our self interests first naturally.

As for the synthetic stuff, I don't think I've ever taken joy in a horse getting injured. I know I haven't. I don't like synthetics as a fan of the sport. As a bettor, at least now, I'm actually loving it. But that is neither here nor there.

The only points I ever brought up about poly (or the other stuff) were to refute the ridiculous propaganda that was shoved down bettor's throats (and horsemen) with no proof whatsoever for months. Most of it, in fact, has been proven false or at the very least remains nothing but conjecture. Somehow, if you mentioned the races were boring and uninspiring, that meant you hated horses and didn't care if they were hurt, which is nonsense.

Fair enough.

[Riot]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=42985

[blackthroatedwind]

Typical of the industry.....an expert testifies that the system is inadequate, something we all know, and he's attacked by a high ranking figure in racing security.

If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.