This will effectively kill horse racing

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ra...ance-on-drugs/

It is always comforting that federal legislation can be filed based on the "beliefs" of several friends of the Congressman with zero actual proof or evidence. It is also nice that instead of actually trying to come up with effective rules the people behind this crusade choose to throw out all common sense and "ban" everything despite zero evidence that simple detection of a medication at a microscopic level can have any effect on a horses performance.

Using the theory that a horse should be immune to all physical frailties in order to be able to run (which is pretty much the theory that the agenda people operate under) means that virtually every horse I have ever trained shouldn't have been allowed to run. Making "zero tolerance" a law will effectively make it impossible to fill a card as it will be necessary to withdraw all medications, even innocuous ones that treat chronic issues like stomach ulcers or allergies, a week or more to avoid a ridiculously minute positive. If you asked the NFL to operate under this standard you would have a 2 game season. Owners will rapidly leave the sport simply because this legislation makes a large percentage of the equine population impossibly expensive to train. At some point, maybe sooner than later, the industry will be asked to pay for this legislation and that will most certainly come from a take out increase and possibly from purses.

And in the end like the banning of steroids, all the supposed "good" that will occur, won't, and this will be all for naught.....as usual. This is like banning all human medications because some people abuse Xanex. They just miss the point.

[Riot]

[tector]

No, horse racing will have committed assisted suicide because it has allowed itself to be run as outlaw enterprise that, not incidentally, also is wagered on by the public. If casinos or lotteries tolerated the level of cheating that is routinely accepted in horse racing, there would be an avalanche of indictments and people sitting in the graybar motel. But horse racing cannot even muster the most basic of standards to protect the bettor (and, I might add, the horses).

I hate the Feds more than most, but this is entirely self-inflicted and was wholly predictable (I know since I predicted it 10 years ago).

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by tector

No, horse racing will have committed assisted suicide because it has allowed itself to be run as outlaw enterprise that, not incidentally, also is wagered on by the public. If casinos or lotteries tolerated the level of cheating that is routinely accepted in horse racing, there would be an avalanche of indictments and people sitting in the graybar motel. But horse racing cannot even muster the most basic of standards to protect the bettor (and, I might add, the horses).

I hate the Feds more than most, but this is entirely self-inflicted and was wholly predictable (I know since I predicted it 10 years ago).

The issue with this logic is that "cheating" is ill-defined in this sport. Much of what is defined as "cheating" more closely resembles a traffic violation than an actual crime. This misrepresentation surely is self-inflicted as a large portion of the industry has very little clue about the issue and even less interest in trying to educate themselves or the wagering public. The public's opinion has been formed by turf writers who lazily base the lions share of their columns on half truths and rumors and because the industry as a whole does nothing to refute this and in many ways supports these misguided opinions as truth then we arrive at this point.

The idea that horses should be immune to physical issues which modern medicine can address is idiotic yet pretty much exactly what is being proposed and supported. The fact that illegal medications which should be the focus are indeed already banned or illegal seems to be lost.

[Riot]

A micro-overage of clenbuterol is illegal on race day, and should be, but a micro-overage is not "cheating" in the least, as it doesn't, couldn't possible affect a horses performance. Yet it's portrayed - incorrectly - as a cheating horror in the uneducated and undifferentiated racing press and fan base, who don't know what the drugs are or what they can and cannot do.

Some horses need daily medication for their allergies and small routine aches and pains - we can't take that away. They are elite athletes and deserve to be treated as such.

Horse racing isn't unique as far as using drugs, legal or illegal. Abuse exists in all equine disciplines. The FEI and USEF manages to have very tough medication rules, while recognizing therapeutic meds are needed (just went to a rules update conference at Rolex last week in fact).

Such a strict rule would decimate the claiming ranks, IMO. Med regulation can be done better. But this rule isn't it.

But horse racing cannot even muster the most basic of standards to protect the bettor (and, I might add, the horses).

I think that is a really unfair assessment of the current state of drug regulation and testing.

[tector]

Plainly, the proposed regs are an overreaction. But the door to that overraction was opened wide by the laissez faire "regulation" of the issue for decades. Why is Doug O'Neill still in this sport? "Dick" Dutrow? You want to sell me some BS that they are just "helping" the horses?

GTFOOH. Apologists for the status quo have been the greatest detriment to this sport for decades.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ra...ance-on-drugs/

It is always comforting that federal legislation can be filed based on the "beliefs" of several friends of the Congressman with zero actual proof or evidence. It is also nice that instead of actually trying to come up with effective rules the people behind this crusade choose to throw out all common sense and "ban" everything despite zero evidence that simple detection of a medication at a microscopic level can have any effect on a horses performance.

Using the theory that a horse should be immune to all physical frailties in order to be able to run (which is pretty much the theory that the agenda people operate under) means that virtually every horse I have ever trained shouldn't have been allowed to run. Making "zero tolerance" a law will effectively make it impossible to fill a card as it will be necessary to withdraw all medications, even innocuous ones that treat chronic issues like stomach ulcers or allergies, a week or more to avoid a ridiculously minute positive. If you asked the NFL to operate under this standard you would have a 2 game season. Owners will rapidly leave the sport simply because this legislation makes a large percentage of the equine population impossibly expensive to train. At some point, maybe sooner than later, the industry will be asked to pay for this legislation and that will most certainly come from a take out increase and possibly from purses.

And in the end like the banning of steroids, all the supposed "good" that will occur, won't, and this will be all for naught.....as usual. This is like banning all human medications because some people abuse Xanex. They just miss the point.

Horses don't ask for meds to keep them well or pain free. No gastroguard growing wild that they go eat everyday. Your NFL thoughts fail to represent the obvious adults are making decisions for their own behalf. Horses only require such treatment because they are in an environment which is artificial to what they would do naturally. Ultimately, people need to medicate horses responsible but everyones veiw of responsible is different. When dutrow years ago told the press he gives ALL of his horses Winstrol he didnt think he was being iresponsible he really thought it helped them. I never understood why hyperbaric chambers were deemed illegal for use the week of raceday? It's oxygen for g-ds sake? How the heck is that bad fr a horse? because it feels better faster? Anyway my point is comparing humans shooting themselves at halftime of an NFL game is completely differt then making a horse eat 2 butes a day so he can stay fit and train.

[Travis Stone]

If it wasn't Kentucky Derby week, this story would be far more prominent than it is right now...

[GenuineRisk]

I would prefer Congress focus instead on banning medications in feed animals, as we're not wagering on that crap; we're eating it and the cruelty experienced by factory farm animals far outweighs cruelty in the racing industry, but the factory farms have a lot more money to buy politicians than the racing industry. And of course, gambling baaaaaaaaaad. The preachers say so.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If it wasn't Kentucky Derby week, this story would be far more prominent than it is right now...

No, the representative from Kentucky is rolling this out now precisely because it is Derby week. It's similar to the racing-related garbage we see the politicians pull here in New York the week before the Belmont or during Saratoga.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Horses don't ask for meds to keep them well or pain free. No gastroguard growing wild that they go eat everyday. Your NFL thoughts fail to represent the obvious adults are making decisions for their own behalf. Horses only require such treatment because they are in an environment which is artificial to what they would do naturally. Ultimately, people need to medicate horses responsible but everyones veiw of responsible is different. When dutrow years ago told the press he gives ALL of his horses Winstrol he didnt think he was being iresponsible he really thought it helped them. I never understood why hyperbaric chambers were deemed illegal for use the week of raceday? It's oxygen for g-ds sake? How the heck is that bad fr a horse? because it feels better faster? Anyway my point is comparing humans shooting themselves at halftime of an NFL game is completely differt then making a horse eat 2 butes a day so he can stay fit and train.

The testing levels are what I was comparing though the thought that anyone but the elite of the elite football players can refuse treatment/medication and keep their job is completely misguided. The difference is that the players who take illegal substances are knowingly and willingly cheating. The vast majority of positives in horse racing are things that are only called "cheating" because some lab detected a legal medication above a completely randomly selected level. Giving a horse Winstrol when Dutrow made the comment was a far different story than a baseball player taking them but as usual no one pointed this out. Winstrol is not crack like some people would have you believe.

So are you saying because the horses "dont ask" for meds that we aren't morally and professionally obligated to treat them for their issues?

Thoroughbreds are not found in the wild so comparisons should take this into consideration. The are not a "natural" breed, they are a selected breed.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The testing levels are what I was comparing though the thought that anyone but the elite of the elite football players can refuse treatment/medication and keep their job is completely misguided. The difference is that the players who take illegal substances are knowingly and willingly cheating. The vast majority of positives in horse racing are things that are only called "cheating" because some lab detected a legal medication above a completely randomly selected level. Giving a horse Winstrol when Dutrow made the comment was a far different story than a baseball player taking them but as usual no one pointed this out. Winstrol is not crack like some people would have you believe.

So are you saying because the horses "dont ask" for meds that we aren't morally and professionally obligated to treat them for their issues?

Thoroughbreds are not found in the wild so comparisons should take this into consideration. The are not a "natural" breed, they are a selected breed.

Some race horses have breathing issues that clenbutrol would help most race horses arent given that drug because they have professional/medical need. Most race horses are treated with it because it helps make them run faster, hence the moral and professional argument loose merit.

The problem is time curses most problem but time is boring and expensive and trainers dont earn laying up horses. And owners are bored and want to race immediately so drugs make the trainers and owners get together on the same page. Its a happy marriage unless you are the horse of course.

BTW if most of the ridiculous positives have nothing to do with performance why do give a darn about Dutrow getting a license in KY?

[randallscott35]

Hay oats water

Hay Oats Water

Hay oats Water!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Hay oats water

Hay Oats Water

Hay oats Water!

Never was, never will be.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Some race horses have breathing issues that clenbutrol would help most race horses arent given that drug because they have professional/medical need. Most race horses are treated with it because it helps make them run faster, hence the moral and professional argument loose merit.

The problem is time curses most problem but time is boring and expensive and trainers dont earn laying up horses. And owners are bored and want to race immediately so drugs make the trainers and owners get together on the same page. Its a happy marriage unless you are the horse of course.

BTW if most of the ridiculous positives have nothing to do with performance why do give a darn about Dutrow getting a license in KY?

Clembuterol doesnt make horses run faster when you have to stop giving it 4 days before the race. The fact is because of the environment they live in which is dusty, pretty much all horses can benefit from using it without it having any race altering effect.

The idea that time cures all is ridiculous. As I have said many times, no one yet has convinced me yet that thoroughbred horses shouldn't benefit from modern medicine like every other species on the Earth. Virtually no legal medication given to horses harms them if used properly.

Dutrow deserves whatever fate befalls him. He has plenty of other issues outside of medication violations.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Clembuterol doesnt make horses run faster when you have to stop giving it 4 days before the race. The fact is because of the environment they live in which is dusty, pretty much all horses can benefit from using it without it having any race altering effect.

The idea that time cures all is ridiculous. As I have said many times, no one yet has convinced me yet that thoroughbred horses shouldn't benefit from modern medicine like every other species on the Earth. Virtually no legal medication given to horses harms them if used properly.

Dutrow deserves whatever fate befalls him. He has plenty of other issues outside of medication violations.

Why would you stop using a drug 4 days before? So its ok to work your horse in 58 and its not harmful or irresponsble so who cares if the horse runs 1:10 7 days later on it in a race? Testing for a drug that you use daily because the enionment is dusty is silly.

Of course time doesnt cure all but it certainly used instead of drugs that will get them to the races faster