Summer Bird pointed for The BC

[CSC]

As anyone who listened to Steve's interview with Tim Ice yesterday will know Summer Bird will be pointed for the BC this fall on Pro- ride. How about that, a horse and it's connections that won't use the synth angle to duck out of the competition. I propose if Summer Bird wins his next start (most likely the JCGC and wins the BC Classic) he will have earned HOY. For me this is the feel good story of the year, these connections and horse make it very easy for any racing fan to root for them.

If that happens they should get Jeremy Piven for the Chris Rosier role and Kurt Russell for Desormeaux. Peter North could play Tim Ice in a breakthrough performance.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

If that happens they should get Jeremy Piven for the Chris Rosier role and Kurt Russell for Desormeaux. Peter North could play Tim Ice in a breakthrough performance.

The Giants once beat the Pats in the Superbowl, true it is not an easy feat. But it is worth discussion if it can be done(however remote) does he deserve HOY if people can look past the RA sweetheart theme. She's a great filly but objectively he is a very good horse himself who is only getting better.

Originally Posted by CSC

The Giants once beat the Pats in the Superbowl, true it is not an easy feat. But it is worth discussion if it can be done(however remote) does he deserve HOY if people can look past the RA sweetheart theme. She's a great filly but objectively he is a very good horse himself who is only getting better.

He'll have to beat Rachel Alexander.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

He'll have to beat Rachel Alexander.

After the Woodward, the answer to that should be clearer depending on the result. Her campaign after this weekend could get easier or harder.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by CSC

After the Woodward, the answer to that should be clearer depending on the result. Her campaign after this weekend could get easier or harder.

Who really do you see in the Woodward that can beat her, beyond herself?

[Danzig]

since the haskell is the only time they'll meet this year, you can't ignore the fact that rachel dominated summer bird that day. speculation about a rematch notwithstanding, facts are facts.
also, altho i think summer bird put on a nice show in the travers, it's far from a given that he wins his next two. good for ice taking him to cali, if that's what they choose to do. given the fact that summer bird usually tends to find his way on a track once he has a few works/gallops, they have to feel some confidence in their approach.
however, one mans treasure is another mans trash. jess jackson has been emphatic about not liking poly, and who is in the position to question his motives? he hasn't exactly taken a safe approach with rachel, as evidenced by two starts vs colts, including a classic win over the derby winner, as well as the second and third place finishers in ky. and now taking on open company in the woodward...if she wins there, it's yet another leg up on the 3 yo competition, who have yet to make the attempt.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

He'll have to beat Rachel Alexander.

and even then, they'd have one each. summer bird has the lead imo for 3 yo colt-but he has a lot to do to get HOY. and it's far from a given that he wins the bcc-or the jcgc for that matter.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by CSC

As anyone who listened to Steve's interview with Tim Ice yesterday will know Summer Bird will be pointed for the BC this fall on Pro- ride. How about that, a horse and it's connections that won't use the synth angle to duck out of the competition. I propose if Summer Bird wins his next start (most likely the JCGC and wins the BC Classic) he will have earned HOY. For me this is the feel good story of the year, these connections and horse make it very easy for any racing fan to root for them.

You can certainly make a case and it is very sporting on Ice's part, but I think Rachel controls her own destiny as far as HOY goes. She'll most likely run twice more this year? If she wins both, the Woodward being one of them and perhaps the Beldame being the second, shes a lock to win this award. She already blasted Summer Bird in what will be their only head to head matchup and shares 1 triple crown race win with Summer Bird.

[CSC]

Atleast this may force Jess Jackson to rethink his fall plans, I think SB can force his hand. Winning the Belmont-Travers-JCGC-BC Classic is a very strong case for HOY.

One race at a tiiiiiiiime, sweet Jesus.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

Atleast this may force Jess Jackson to rethink his fall plans, I think SB can force his hand. Winning the Belmont-Travers-JCGC-BC Classic is a very strong case for HOY.

IF and its not a mortal lock IMO.. Rachel wins the Woodward there is absolutely no chance for any horse to win HOY except her. And she's already drowned Summer Bird.

SB could win the Super Derby, JCGC, Goodwood, BCClassic and the Clark and he still wouldnt get HOY if she wins the Woodward.

Granted SB is a huge bet against in the classic but I would give him a shot in the JCGC. He's the frontrunner for 3yo Colt award but there's only one horse even in the running for HOY at this point.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

IF and its not a mortal lock IMO.. Rachel wins the Woodward there is absolutely no chance for any horse to win HOY except her. And she's already drowned Summer Bird.

SB could win the Super Derby, JCGC, Goodwood, BCClassic and the Clark and he still wouldnt get HOY if she wins the Woodward.

Granted SB is a huge bet against in the classic but I would give him a shot in the JCGC. He's the frontrunner for 3yo Colt award but there's only one horse even in the running for HOY at this point.

For argument's sake:

Significant accomplishments

RA wins:
K. Oaks
Preakness
Haskell

SB:
Belmont win
Haskell placed.
Travers win

With a possible 2 races to go for each is RA's lead really that secure? Objectively speaking...

BTW I didn't include the Mother Goose, I agree she is the top filly for The Eclipse award and she only faced a 3 horse field, however impressive her beyer was. I am concentrating on the HOY discussion part of it.

[Revidere]

It's a foregone conclusion that Summer Bird will beat Zenyatta in California. His beyers are higher.

As for Rachel; if she wins the Woodward, it looks like she's done for the year.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...after-woodward

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

For argument's sake:

Significant accomplishments

RA wins:
K. Oaks
Preakness
Haskell

SB:
Belmont win
Haskell placed.
Travers win

With a possible 2 races to go for each is RA's lead really that secure? Objectively speaking...

BTW I didn't include the Mother Goose, I agree she is the top filly for The Eclipse award and she only faced a 3 horse field, however impressive her beyer was. I am concentrating on the HOY discussion part of it.

you just cant throw out her other wins and the margin of victory and the final times which have been spectacular except for the Preakness.. tho it was still okay.

its not even close at this point. like not at all. If voting happened today she'd get every single vote for HOY unless someone had a real crazy agenda. The only way it becomes close is if Rachel loses TWO or more races and Summer bird wins the JCGC and the BC Classic... which he will not win.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Before synthetic surfaces were used, was there an outcry every year for "sporting" people to move their horses from dirt to turf and vice versa at the top level of the game? Not to my knowledge. Why? They are different surfaces and very, very rarely is a horse suited for more than one surface.

There is no difference between a trainer declining to run a dominant dirt horse on turf and declining to run a dominant dirt horse on a synthetic surface.

To me, this is a simple concept.

I don't begrudge any owner or trainer for refusing to run a dominant dirt horse on a synthetic surface.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Gander

She already blasted Summer Bird in what will be their only head to head matchup and shares 1 triple crown race win with Summer Bird.

As I keep reminding people that is only one race, many great horses have been "blasted" once only to redeem themselves later on. Frankly it is a tiresome argument to constantly refer the Haskell as the only and true measuring stick that RA is 10 lengths better than SB. If she shows up at SA in the Classic or Belmont for the JCGC, I suspect alot people will start to see the light.

One thing we do know, the connections are sporting and not scared to showcase their horse anywhere, anytime. Even on a foreign surface.

[slotdirt]

When he runs a bang up fourth to two Euros and Tiago, will we still be applauding this decision? In any event, Summer Bird was a pretty easy horse to root for like four months ago. Plus, Summer Bird >>>>>> Dunkirk.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by CSC

As I keep reminding people that is only one race, many great horses have been "blasted" once only to redeem themselves later on. Frankly it is a tiresome argument to constantly refer the Haskell as the only and true measuring stick that RA is 10 lengths better than SB. If she shows up at SA in the Classic or Belmont for the JCGC, I suspect alot people will start to see the light.

One thing we do know, the connections are sporting and not scared to showcase their horse anywhere, anytime. Even on a foreign surface.

I'm not saying Summer Bird isnt capable of beating Rachel in a rematch, if one was to take place, but do you really think a rematch will happen? What more does rachel have to prove? If she wins this weekend, she will have dominated 3 year old fillies, 3 year old males (twice) and older males (given a likely romp in the Woodward). The only thing left for her to take on is older fillies and mares. Why on earth would her connections entertain the idea of the Jockey Club when all it would be is a collection of who she has already beaten?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Gander

I'm not saying Summer Bird isnt capable of beating Rachel in a rematch, if one was to take place, but do you really think a rematch will happen? What more does rachel have to prove? If she wins this weekend, she will have dominated 3 year old fillies, 3 year old males (twice) and older males (given a likely romp in the Woodward). The only thing left for her to take on is older fillies and mares. Why on earth would her connections entertain the idea of the Jockey Club when all it would be is a collection of who she has already beaten?

I agree on one point, Jess Jackson will not risk RA's reputation unless a horse can threaten her for HOY. Whether one agrees with the BC format or not, it was designed for determining year end honors and historically more times than not it has.