2013 Hall of Fame Inductees

[Merlinsky]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...class-for-2013

Calvin made it in along with Lure, Invasor, and Housebuster.

[Kasept]

Love me some Lure. (A-)

Housebuster did enough. (B-)

I don't begrudge Borel but wouldn't have voted for him. (C+)

Liked him as a horse but Invasor as HOFer utterly mystifying. (F)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Love me some Lure. (A-)

Housebuster did enough. (B-)

I don't begrudge Borel but wouldn't have voted for him. (C+)

Liked him as a horse but Invasor as HOFer utterly mystifying. (F)

[Alabama Stakes]

Borel over the Ant ? Really ? I guess 5000 wins is a ton of wins. Maybe next time for Chris.
I hope the Hall of Famer rides like one next saturday, though if he doesn't fall off, Rev should be fine. Invasor did beat some nice hosses that he wasn't supposed to beat. He was a tough competitor. Only lost once.

[Calzone Lord]

Sprinters and turf horses almost never make it. You have a historical bias against them that is slowly giving way.

Invasor was 5-for-5 here -- all Grade 1 wins including an edition of the Breeders Cup Classic that has been more above par than most of the recent ones.

Also a Dubai World Cup win abroad.

The older males have been extraordinarily weak for the last several years. A horse like Blame would be considered one of the better ones, and he'd have no chance in hell with Invasor. Invasor and Curlin were both locks to make the Hall of Fame.

I'd give Lure, Housebuster, and Invasor all a B.

[keithting]

I hate to say it (since Thoroughbred Racing needs as many positives as it can get these days)......

but Invasor's election to HOF is "really reaching"

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by keithting

I hate to say it (since Thoroughbred Racing needs as many positives as it can get these days)......

but Invasor's election to HOF is "really reaching"

If he didn't get in ... it would mean another jockey would have to in the new format.

Like it or not ... but if a horse come to the USA, runs just five times, wins five Grade 1's in those five races and leaves for the Dubai World Cup, wins that, and retires...it's going to be recognized as a Hall of Fame career.

If you're complaining about Invasor, just wait two or three more years.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Sprinters and turf horses almost never make it. You have a historical bias against them that is slowly giving way.

Invasor was 5-for-5 here -- all Grade 1 wins including an edition of the Breeders Cup Classic that has been more above par than most of the recent ones.

Also a Dubai World Cup win abroad.

The older males have been extraordinarily weak for the last several years. A horse like Blame would be considered one of the better ones, and he'd have no chance in hell with Invasor. Invasor and Curlin were both locks to make the Hall of Fame.

I'd give Lure, Housebuster, and Invasor all a B.

Jay Privman talked about it this morning. He's a voter and also on the nominating committee. He says that a lot of the times when discussing sprint and turf types as nominees he has to really stress and explain their merits to those that say, 'he was just a sprinter' or 'but he only ran on turf' as if dirt routers are the only horses that are supposed to be considered for induction.

I loved Invasor during his career but take a close look at who he beat in those domestic G1's. Not an august group. And arguably, had Castellano not been dizzy from the Distaff spill, Bernardini may well have beaten Invasor in the Classic. Heckuva nice horse but can't see him as a HOFer. Very fair point about what will qualify long term though.

(EDIT: Invasor victims: PIM Special (Wanderin Boy, West Virginia), Suburban (Wild Desert, Andromeda's Hero), Whitney (Sun King, West Virginia), Classic (Bernardini, Premium Tap), Donn (Hesanoldsalt, A.P. Arrow), World Cup (Premium Tap, Bullish Luck)..

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Jay Privman talked about it this morning. He's a voter and also on the nominating committee. He says that a lot of the times when discussing sprint and turf types as nominees he has to really stress and explain their merits to those that say, 'he was just a sprinter' or 'but he only ran on turf' as if dirt routers are the only horses that are supposed to be considered for induction.

I loved Invasor during his career but take a close look at who he beat in those domestic G1's. Not an august group. And arguably, had Castellano not been dizzy from the Distaff spill, Bernardini may well have beaten Invasor in the Classic.

Steve... the bias against sprinters and turf horses is something that has been going on even before Privman was born. And it was a lot stronger the further back you go.

I know who Invasor beat in those Grade 1's and I agree that Bernardini ran the better race in the Classic.

If you think Invasor is ridiculous get ready for horses like Gio Ponti and Ashado.

[my miss storm cat]

16-6-1 from 32...
Won over $1.3 million (all time leading money earner, steeplechase)...

At 5: Won Hard Scuffle Hurdle -G1, Supreme Hurdle S.
At 6: Won Breeders' Cup Steeplechase -G1, Royal Chase for the Sport Of Kings Hurdle -G1, Colonial Cup (NTR)
At 7: Won Breeders' Cup Steeplechase -G1
At 8: Won Breeders' Cup Steeplechase -G1, Colonial Cup -G1
At 9: Won Breeders' Cup Steeplechase -G1, Colonial Cup -G1, Somerset Medical Center Race for Cancer Awareness Hurdle Stakes -G2
At 10: Won Breeders' Cup Steeplechase -G1

Congrats to the connections of Mc Dynamo.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

If he didn't get in ... it would mean another jockey would have to in the new format.

Like it or not ... but if a horse come to the USA, runs just five times, wins five Grade 1's in those five races and leaves for the Dubai World Cup, wins that, and retires...it's going to be recognized as a Hall of Fame career.

If you're complaining about Invasor, just wait two or three more years.

Unless I am missing something, a jockey does not have to get in every year.

They can put Cat Thief in the Hall of Fame for all I care. The list of those whose merits are questionable grows annually.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Unless I am missing something, a jockey does not have to get in every year.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...56&postcount=1

Who of those 4 would you choose?

Obviously Lure, Housebuster, and Invasor are the first 3.

The rest of the list is utter garbage.

I'd probably say Gomez...even though he spent most of his career toiling in the midwest like Borel ... and he had some jail stints and substance abuse problems while in California.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...56&postcount=1

Who of those 4 would you choose?

I'd probably say Gomez...even though he spent most of his career toiling in the midwest like Borel ... and he had some jail stints and substance abuse problems while in California.

Speaking of jail and substance abuse, I know Perret has some support among a group of voters. I'd vote there slightly ahead of Gomez. I don't know what you do about Antley. Those that are for him are really for him and the numbers are impressive for the duration of that insanely productive period.

ANTLEY: http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...hType=J&eID=56

GOMEZ: http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...Type=J&eID=731

PERRET: http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Res...ype=J&eID=1460

[Calzone Lord]

Under this 10 finalist and 4 get in format ... the smart thing to do would be to get the deserving old time horses on the ballot.

Hermis isn't in the Hall Of Fame ... here are his accomplishments:

U.S. Champion Three Year Old, 1902.
U. S. Horse of The Year, 1902.
U.S. Champion Handicap Horse, 1903.
U.S. Horse of The Year, 1903.
U.S. Champion Handicap Horse, 1904.
Twice matched Saratoga's track record for 1-1/8 mi

He won 28 of 55 career starts. Horse of the Year at age 3. Horse of the Year at age 4. Won the Suburban and was champion handicap horse at age 5.

At least he will keep a jockeys name off the list.

Esposa is one of the great racemares of all-time. She's not in the Hall of Fame.

I can come up with a lot of horses who would have kept Borel at this year, and more of those jockeys out in the future.

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm confused, there are people that think Craig Perret belongs in the Hall of Fame? Really?

I must be unfamiliar with his record. I am not unfamiliar with his riding.

[keithting]

Speaking of jockeys and the HOF - -

why is Mike Venezia not in?

what about Don MacBeth?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by keithting

Speaking of jockeys and the HOF - -

why is Mike Venezia not in?

what about Don MacBeth?

You forgot Lee Moon.

[PatCummings]

All bets off on HOF inductees once Point Given got in having never faced older horses (and didn't win Triple Crown - which is essentially the only way in which you could avoid open races and still earn admission IMO).

[art vanderlay]

No love for Carl Gambardella? 6,349 wins and $29,389,041 in earnings, which around these parts was quite a fortune.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Re...ype=J&eID=675#

[Merlinsky]

How much does a horse from outside the US need to start here for people to seriously consider them for our Hall of Fame? I'm not clear one what it's taken in the past, and I get that a once a year pop into our country for the Breeders' Cup is likely not enough. There are some with extraordinary achievements such as Goldikova who haven't really been here much and yet, those 3 BC wins...Are they their own reward and you just keep on moving when selecting nominees?