Steve Byk quote of the day

[Fearless Leader]

"Lasix is the bane of American racing"

Way to call out Barry Irwin on his hypocrisy !!!!!

[Alabama Stakes]

the "bane"? what's he Howard Cosell ? a little pedantic for the hossplayer types

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Fearless Leader

"Lasix is the bane of American racing"

Way to call out Barry Irwin on his hypocrisy !!!!!

Did you notice the Team Valor wonderhorse from Uruguay in the stake at Monmouth on Sunday makes his US debut with Lasix? More interesting is the fact that according to the DRF the horse was on lasix in Uruguay.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Did you notice the Team Valor wonderhorse from Uruguay in the stake at Monmouth on Sunday makes his US debut with Lasix? More interesting is the fact that according to the DRF the horse was on lasix in Uruguay.

That was the reference..

[cmorioles]

Running without lasix would be pretty silly if your horse is the only one doing it. It is akin to giving the other horses a few lengths head start.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Running without lasix would be pretty silly if your horse is the only one doing it. It is akin to giving the other horses a few lengths head start.

opinion or fact?

running with lasix while saying it's the bane of racing is the height of hypocrisy. zero respect for someone who talks out of both sides of his mouth. if you don't want it out there, and want to take a stand....how can you be taken seriously while still using it? you can't.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Running without lasix would be pretty silly if your horse is the only one doing it. It is akin to giving the other horses a few lengths head start.

Especially when they have been running on lasix in a foreign jurisdiction

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Especially when they have been running on lasix in a foreign jurisdiction

I thought you didn't care what they did in other countries.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

opinion or fact?

running with lasix while saying it's the bane of racing is the height of hypocrisy. zero respect for someone who talks out of both sides of his mouth. if you don't want it out there, and want to take a stand....how can you be taken seriously while still using it? you can't.

I think it is a fact.

It isn't really hypocrisy. I'm sure there are American League managers that hate the DH, but do you think they are going to bat the pitcher to make the point?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Especially when they have been running on lasix in a foreign jurisdiction

I don't know how liberal the use is there. If it is like here, the same thing still applies.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I think it is a fact.

Can you provide objective proof that shows your statement that giving lasix, "It is akin to giving the other horses a few lengths head start", to be a "fact", rather than just "opinion"?

Please provide.

Thanks

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Fearless Leader

"Lasix is the bane of American racing"

Way to call out Barry Irwin on his hypocrisy !!!!!

I admire Steve for always seeking the truth in this discussion, and letting the facts be known via his radio show

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I think it is a fact.

It isn't really hypocrisy. I'm sure there are American League managers that hate the DH, but do you think they are going to bat the pitcher to make the point?

and i think it's an opinion. sorry. i've seen too many say it doesn't enhance to think otherwise. and you'll counter that you've seen others say it does-as have i. which is why it's still debated.

however, when you've got a big-time owner trying to make a change, not just play, i think it is absolutely hypocrisy. using your analogy, if american league team owners wanted rid of the dh, then yes, it would be wrong to continue following that rule. the best argument is proof that it isn't needed, and that you show that by not using it.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Can you provide objective proof that shows your statement that giving lasix, "It is akin to giving the other horses a few lengths head start", to be a "fact", rather than just "opinion"?

Please provide.

Thanks

Yes, I've done so many times. Just compare the speed figures of each horse with and without lasix. Of course you have to go back a ways, because you won't find many now that don't debut without an injection. It is fact, but you can do the work as easily as I can, I'm not doing it for you.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

however, when you've got a big-time owner trying to make a change, not just play, i think it is absolutely hypocrisy. using your analogy, if american league team owners wanted rid of the dh, then yes, it would be wrong to continue following that rule. the best argument is proof that it isn't needed, and that you show that by not using it.

That is ridiculous. You would put yourself at a competitive disadvantage and lose more often. You follow the rules in place and lobby to have them changed.

Here is another. The Mavericks owner was against the Thunder being allowed to move from Seattle. Should he have forfeited all games against them to prove his point? I'm sure the team's fans would have loved that in the Western Conference finals a few years ago.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That is ridiculous. You would put yourself at a competitive disadvantage and lose more often. You follow the rules in place and lobby to have them changed.

Here is another. The Mavericks owner was against the Thunder being allowed to move from Seattle. Should he have forfeited all games against them to prove his point? I'm sure the team's fans would have loved that in the Western Conference finals a few years ago.

but not everyone thinks that lasix use gives a competitive advantage. besides, if one didn't use it, and won, wouldn't that prove quite a point? i'm sure it's happened. you telling me that horses without lasix generally finish in the rear? i doubt it.
and no, the latter analogy you gave means nothing. that wasn't a rule change, it was a team move. it didn't put a team at any advantage or disadvantage.
if barry irwin wanted to prove a point, the best way to do it is to take his horses off it, and show it's not needed. than it's not his opinion at all. it would show he's serious, and that he's right. right now, it just shows he uses something that he says he shouldn't.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but not everyone thinks that lasix use gives a competitive advantage. besides, if one didn't use it, and won, wouldn't that prove quite a point? i'm sure it's happened. you telling me that horses without lasix generally finish in the rear? i doubt it.

Christophe Clement routinely wins races with horses making their debut without Lasix. Did it the other day with a very impressive turf 2-year-old named Da Mi Basia Mille.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

if barry irwin wanted to prove a point, the best way to do it is to take his horses off it, and show it's not needed. than it's not his opinion at all. it would show he's serious, and that he's right. right now, it just shows he uses something that he says he shouldn't.

You completely are missing the point. I don't think many people are saying Lasix doesn't do what it purports to do. People just also believe it does other things to boot.

[Calzone Lord]

I'm not sure about when lasix in Uruguay racing started. Invasor didn't race with it.





He was 5-for-5 in America -- four times winning Grade 1 Handicap races -- and the other wearing down a pre-mature moving Bernardini in the BC Cup Classic.

Assigned 123lbs in the Donn Handicap? What a joke. He clipped heels in that race and won.

His Dubai World Cup win was the final start of his career.

2nd place finisher Premium Tap also won a race without lasix before. He won the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques as his prep:





Discreet Cat's glory days proved over forever in that race. He missed his prep race with a lung infection and he was last by double digits at every single call in the World Cup. Finished last beaten almost 30 lengths. He was never again relevant on the track.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

You completely are missing the point. I don't think many people are saying Lasix doesn't do what it purports to do. People just also believe it does other things to boot.

no, i'm not missing the point at all. i know that some people think it does more than prevent bleeding, that some believe it also enhances performance. and i can find you just as many others who don't.
my point is that if one feels strongly about getting rid of something, they don't keep using it. that would be akin to the marlboro man saying don't smoke while puffing on a marlboro red.