Drug positives at Canterbury Park

[Left Bank]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...is-summer.aspx

Unbelievable!

[GPK]

Two of the July positives are against horses who placed in stakes races during the Claiming Crown, the track’s signature event put on in conjunction with the National HBPA. Trainer Jamie Ness saddled both of those horses, $70,500 Glass Slipper Stakes winner My Irish Girl and $70,500 Rapid Transit Stakes third-place finisher Max Ahead.

I know I'm shocked

[Bogey]

Ness is scheduled to be well represented at Hawthorne this Fall/Winter meeting along with a few more high profile barns.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Bogey

Ness is scheduled to be well represented at Hawthorne this Fall/Winter meeting along with a few more high profile barns.

Midwest?

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by GPK

Midwest?

Yes

[reese]

Originally Posted by GPK

Two of the July positives are against horses who placed in stakes races during the Claiming Crown, the track’s signature event put on in conjunction with the National HBPA. Trainer Jamie Ness saddled both of those horses, $70,500 Glass Slipper Stakes winner My Irish Girl and $70,500 Rapid Transit Stakes third-place finisher Max Ahead.

I know I'm shocked

We all "know" the only cheaters are in NY

[the_fat_man]

What a surprise, Ness and Maker make the list.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Bogey

Ness is scheduled to be well represented at Hawthorne this Fall/Winter meeting along with a few more high profile barns.

That is pretty interesting because Hawthorne is expected to announce a purse reduction, heard MSW's will be around 20k-22k

[Cannon Shell]

There is obviously an issue with the testing procedures in MN as these positives are basically a joke. The single biggest problem with the entire drug issue is the fact that the testing labs and comissions fail to understand or care that detection of regularly used medications (all of which these are) at minute levels simply lead to misleading the public into thinking that there were some powerful enhancers in play.

Far be it for me to defend Ness or Maker, but in this case they are probably not guilty of doing anything really wrong. As I have stated many times when you treat your horse within the guidelines and still get a positive then the problem really lies with the testing authority. The fact that there are so many positives for so many different trainers leads you to believe that the issue lies with the procedures since every med listed is commonly used. I am not naive enough to think that guys dont take advantages but I am also cognizent of the fact that the rules are basically a joke and labs compete for business by issuing positive tests.

This kind of ridiclousness from the MN commission makes the issue worse, not better and doesn't serve to deter the real drug issues, just confuses trainers, owners, vets, and fans as to what is really going on.

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...positives.aspx

These are a different story because of this sentence:
According to RCI, etodolac “is not available in the United States in a Federal Drug Administration approved equine formulation.”

[AlreadyHome]

Originally Posted by reese

We all "know" the only cheaters are in NY

NYHater lol hahahahaaa you're amazing

NY IS THE PLACE 2BE

[Rudeboyelvis]

Seriously, how difficult is it to develop baseline blood chemistry levels and disqualify horses that exceed those levels? Removes all of this "well he's got the new juice that they can't detect" stuff (not that it isn't warranted).

They've been doing it in Cycling ( cue TFM) for years.

Serious question, not a vet, and don't pretend to be.... but a post race blood chemistry test would indicate elevated red blood cell levels ( eliminating EPO and other cancer management drugs) CO levels, and anything out of whack with a normal thoroughbred blood chemistry.

Would eliminate the need to figure out "How" they're cheating and hold them accountable for their monster "move ups"... If they tested at a level prior to a trainer getting them and performance enhancing levels are indicated after a move up, you get suspended - regardless of what you used...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Seriously, how difficult is it to develop baseline blood chemistry levels and disqualify horses that exceed those levels? Removes all of this "well he's got the new juice that they can't detect" stuff (not that it isn't warranted).

They've been doing it in Cycling ( cue TFM) for years.

Serious question, not a vet, and don't pretend to be.... but a post race blood chemistry test would indicate elevated red blood cell levels ( eliminating EPO and other cancer management drugs) CO levels, and anything out of whack with a normal thoroughbred blood chemistry.

Would eliminate the need to figure out "How" they're cheating and hold them accountable for their monster "move ups"... If they tested at a level prior to a trainer getting them and performance enhancing levels are indicated after a move up, you get suspended - regardless of what you used...

Good idea in theory, but the cost is what will make it never happen.

[Rudeboyelvis]

I hear ya Tom...Unfortunately it always seems to lead back to the same, tired discussion among industry insiders of expending funds (RE: take out) in lieu of limiting days and reducing tracks, - which , by the way would in turn rid juiced up POS's out of "Racinos" and getting the sport back to an actual sport... But I digress...

Realistically there is no reason that the sport can't attract as many gamblers as any other form...Gamblers these days simply have enough sense (and knowledge) to know when the game is rigged...which is why we muddle along, dealing with the same issues we dealt with back in the '40's....

Take the shot, dismiss the naysayer's, and see where we are. The cost of blood testing is insignificant relative to the exponential growth we can achieve if the betting public is convinced that the game is clean.... and Blood Chemistry Testing is the only realistic way to win them over.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I hear ya Tom...Unfortunately it always seems to lead back to the same, tired discussion among industry insiders of expending funds (RE: take out) in lieu of limiting days and reducing tracks, - which , by the way would in turn rid juiced up POS's out of "Racinos" and getting the sport back to an actual sport... But I digress...

Realistically there is no reason that the sport can't attract as many gamblers as any other form...Gamblers these days simply have enough sense (and knowledge) to know when the game is rigged...which is why we muddle along, dealing with the same issues we dealt with back in the '40's....

Take the shot, dismiss the naysayer's, and see where we are. The cost of blood testing is insignificant relative to the exponential growth we can achieve if the betting public is convinced that the game is clean.... and Blood Chemistry Testing is the only realistic way to win them over.

I personally don't think that people are not playing the ponies because of drugs. Matter fact, the sharps know who has the good stuff and who doesn't.

Drug testing will never be regulated and consistent because there is no association. The NTRA and any other comedy association is just there to give some people a job and type up of some press releases about some medicore horse running.

What this industry needs is some young rock star that pisses people off, like a Mark Cuban, to cause a stir, do something like create a 'league', I don't know, and if comedy corporations like CDI or Magna don't want in, adios.

Plus, it isn't like if we had that type of blood testing that these bozos wouldn't figure out a way to beat it, it will ALWAYS be around like it always has.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Seriously, how difficult is it to develop baseline blood chemistry levels and disqualify horses that exceed those levels? Removes all of this "well he's got the new juice that they can't detect" stuff (not that it isn't warranted).

They've been doing it in Cycling ( cue TFM) for years.

Serious question, not a vet, and don't pretend to be.... but a post race blood chemistry test would indicate elevated red blood cell levels ( eliminating EPO and other cancer management drugs) CO levels, and anything out of whack with a normal thoroughbred blood chemistry.

Would eliminate the need to figure out "How" they're cheating and hold them accountable for their monster "move ups"... If they tested at a level prior to a trainer getting them and performance enhancing levels are indicated after a move up, you get suspended - regardless of what you used...

While what you are talking about would help with blood doping in theory, I seem to recall that there was a reason why it wasn't practical to do in horses. I will try to find out. Of course that would not help a bit in the Canterbury situation where none of the meds found was a blood doping agent.

[Many Others]

why is Etodolac considered so wrong in equines, it's only an NSAID anti-inflammatory and approved for use in humans and canines??

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

While what you are talking about would help with blood doping in theory, I seem to recall that there was a reason why it wasn't practical to do in horses. I will try to find out. Of course that would not help a bit in the Canterbury situation where none of the meds found was a blood doping agent.

If you're looking at post race rbc levels wouldn't they be high anyway? Because they have dumped all their reserves from the spleen during the effort? I could be wrong on that....perhaps beth could help....my knowledge of blood chemistry is pretty limited

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Many Others

why is Etodolac considered so wrong in equines, it's only an NSAID anti-inflammatory and approved for use in humans and canines??

It isn't that the drug is wrong or bad...but it isn't approved for use in horses, meaning it is more than likely that they didn't get it from their vets (at least not the horsey vet)...which can lead one to conclude that they are trying to elude the testing. Vets use drugs off label all the time, (even giving rabies vaccines to late term broodmares is off label) this just seems worse.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

If you're looking at post race rbc levels wouldn't they be high anyway? Because they have dumped all their reserves from the spleen during the effort? I could be wrong on that....perhaps beth could help....my knowledge of blood chemistry is pretty limited

No, you're right - splenic contraction increases the RBC thus PCV.