US Best Health Care in the World because of Siamese Twins?

[dalakhani]

According to a highly accreditted online blogger from Bucks County, PA the US health care system was rated the best in the world because of our success in seperating Siamese twins.

"The US is by far the best with Siamese twins," claims Hanna Lechter PHD, a doctor in germany.

"Forget the fact that a large number of their population can't even afford to see a doctor, the siamese twins success is what really matters," said a representative from the nobel prize for medicine.

"The Siamese twins problem has finally come to the forefront as its been a hidden truth for decades in wasillia," says S Palin.

[Riot]

Well, I guess that makes up for us being 33rd to 46th in infant morality.

We can't keep our own babies alive as well as other countries, but we're good with the rare Siamese twin separation?

[alysheba4]

lets say you or a loved one needed brain surgery, heart surgery.....or any major surgery fort that matter..........would you go outside the u.s?

[Riot]

[quote=alysheba4]lets say you or a loved one needed brain surgery, heart surgery.....or any major surgery fort that matter..........would you go outside the u.s?[/QUOTE

That's not on any scale of how one rates the healthcare systems of the world, is it?

Success rates? Post-sx infections rates? What types and numbers of surgical procedures are available? What part of "surgery" are you talking about?

Surgery is such a small part of any healthcare system. Surgical skill relates to the individual facility protocol and the doctor's hands, not what anybody else in the country is doing.

You can have an outstanding, state-of-the-art surgical facility in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of nothing. Our military does that all the time

There are many procedures and treatments, surgical and non-surgical, that are not approved within the US, but are in other countries, and have been for some time.

There are many, MANY older Americans who cannot afford healthcare in this, their own country. They must purchase medications illegally from other countries. It's also very common for Americans to have to go to other countries for certain surgical procedures that they cannot afford here, that are less expensive elsewhere.

Sorry - on any of the different object measures of "healthcare quality", America unfortunately isn't first. Nor often even in the top 10.

[Honu]

[quote=Riot]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

lets say you or a loved one needed brain surgery, heart surgery.....or any major surgery fort that matter..........would you go outside the u.s?[/QUOTE

That's not on any scale of how one rates the healthcare systems of the world, is it?

Success rates? Post-sx infections rates? What types and numbers of surgical procedures are available? What part of "surgery" are you talking about?

Surgery is such a small part of any healthcare system. Surgical skill relates to the individual facility protocol and the doctor's hands, not what anybody else in the country is doing.

You can have an outstanding, state-of-the-art surgical facility in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of nothing. Our military does that all the time

There are many procedures and treatments, surgical and non-surgical, that are not approved within the US, but are in other countries, and have been for some time.

There are many, MANY older Americans who cannot afford healthcare in this, their own country. They must purchase medications illegally from other countries. It's also very common for Americans to have to go to other countries for certain surgical procedures that they cannot afford here, that are less expensive elsewhere.

Sorry - on any of the different object measures of "healthcare quality", America unfortunately isn't first. Nor often even in the top 10.

Oh jeez , for crying out loud , there are millions of Americans eligible to be on Medicare and Medicade who dont sign up . I went to my doctors office( and now I have one thru my partners job , for the last say 20 years none and I have no complaints, my choice to work in an indusrty that doesnt offer insurance) they had huge signs up stating you may be eligible for Medicade and Medicare sign up now.
You know what is very common? People coming to our country and choosing to pay out of their own pockets rather than wait in line for a procedure that is not a right in their own country. Yes other places have government run health care but at what cost ......just because the government in Canada give's citizens health care it still doesnt give them the right to say , heart surgery or a bypass or gall bladder surgery . You have no preference in line , you may be #100 on the sheet but when 99 goes thru that doesnt mean your next.

I have lived 20 years of my 39 years with no health insurance , I have had alot of injuries and the bouts of the flu and colds and yet without a doctor I have managed to survive. I dont expect the government to provide me with health insurance I also dont expect them to provide me with a job or make my house payment. Maybe that is what you want and that is fine , but dont force me to sign up and pay for something I dont want or need. No one is forced to drive a car therefore no one is forced to have car insurance so dont force me to sign up for something I dont want or need. Dont fine my employer because he doesnt provide insurance , people can go work somewhere else , dont fine indiviuals if they choose not to have insurance . If some people want the government to provide them with insurance then fine , contributute what you are asked to.
Forcing people to do something against their will is un-American and our founding fathers came here for just that reason.

[Rileyoriley]

[quote=Honu]

Originally Posted by Riot

Oh jeez , for crying out loud , there are millions of Americans eligible to be on Medicare and Medicade who dont sign up . I went to my doctors office( and now I have one thru my partners job , for the last say 20 years none and I have no complaints, my choice to work in an indusrty that doesnt offer insurance) they had huge signs up stating you may be eligible for Medicade and Medicare sign up now.
You know what is very common? People coming to our country and choosing to pay out of their own pockets rather than wait in line for a procedure that is not a right in their own country. Yes other places have government run health care but at what cost ......just because the government in Canada give's citizens health care it still doesnt give them the right to say , heart surgery or a bypass or gall bladder surgery . You have no preference in line , you may be #100 on the sheet but when 99 goes thru that doesnt mean your next.

I have lived 20 years of my 39 years with no health insurance , I have had alot of injuries and the bouts of the flu and colds and yet without a doctor I have managed to survive. I dont expect the government to provide me with health insurance I also dont expect them to provide me with a job or make my house payment. Maybe that is what you want and that is fine , but dont force me to sign up and pay for something I dont want or need. No one is forced to drive a car therefore no one is forced to have car insurance so dont force me to sign up for something I dont want or need. Dont fine my employer because he doesnt provide insurance , people can go work somewhere else , dont fine indiviuals if they choose not to have insurance . If some people want the government to provide them with insurance then fine , contributute what you are asked to.
Forcing people to do something against their will is un-American and our founding fathers came here for just that reason.

Same here!!! Except I'm 10 years older than you.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

Well, I guess that makes up for us being 33rd to 46th in infant morality.

We can't keep our own babies alive as well as other countries, but we're good with the rare Siamese twin separation?

I assume you meant "mortality" instead of morality.

Would your infant mortality figures include the millions of abortions performed each year?

How many countries can save babies that are extremely low birthweight like we can here in the U.S., or would even try?

The quality here is the best, period. The cost is a separate issue and should be addressed in a way that makes sense according to market forces. Why market forces? Because they are ultimately inescapable, regardless of however elaborate of a system we may try to set up. Supply and demand will determine price and availability of any commodity. It is as unrelenting as gravity.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I assume you meant "mortality" instead of morality.

Would your infant mortality figures include the millions of abortions performed each year?

How many countries can save babies that are extremely low birthweight like we can here in the U.S., or would even try?

The quality here is the best, period. The cost is a separate issue and should be addressed in a way that makes sense according to market forces. Why market forces? Because they are ultimately inescapable, regardless of however elaborate of a system we may try to set up. Supply and demand will determine price and availability of any commodity. It is as unrelenting as gravity.

Based on what? Are these YOUR ratings? Have you had healthcare or treatment in any other country? Are you part of the medical community where you would have intimate knowledge of things pertaining to this issue?

My guess is "NO" to all these questions but maybe I'm wrong. Please spare me the "lefty" garbage and stick to the facts. ON WHAT EMPIRICAL DATA ARE YOU BASING THIS CLAIM?

[joeydb]

Who's the neutral party who is going to compile empirical data among all the countries having a medical system?

Yours is also an opinion, derived from NO DATA, where the answer is always "America Sucks". So where is your data? Your arguments are no more valid than mine without it.

Put up or shut up.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Who's the neutral party who is going to compile empirical data among all the countries having a medical system?

Yours is also an opinion, derived from NO DATA, where the answer is always "America Sucks". So where is your data? Your arguments are no more valid than mine without it.

Put up or shut up.

So basically, your opinion is ignorant. Not to say YOU are ignorant joey (although I wouldnt argue that opinion either) but your opinion on the superiority of US healthcare system is in fact ignorant because YOU HAVE NO BASIS FOR THE OPINION. LOL

I havent given an opinion. What argument have I made and show me where i did? Where did I say that America was or wasnt anything? Where did I say America sucks? Where have I done anything but ask YOU to back up YOUR claims?

[joeydb]

But you appear to be an advocate for radically changing the healthcare industry. Did I misread you? The burden of proof is on you to illustrate that the current situation is inadequate.

We do not have a "healthcare system". We have a marketplace. Just as we do not have a "food distribution system", we have supermarkets. We do not have a "automobile distribution system", we have car dealerships.

It is the same, though the product, healthcare, is much more important than driving a car.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by joeydb

But you appear to be an advocate for radically changing the healthcare industry. Did I misread you? The burden of proof is on you to illustrate that the current situation is inadequate.

We do not have a "healthcare system". We have a marketplace. Just as we do not have a "food distribution system", we have supermarkets. We do not have a "automobile distribution system", we have car dealerships.

It is the same, though the product, healthcare, is much more important than driving a car.

LOL...Find the post where I make that claim...Please. I havent given an opinion. I certainly havent made any baseless claims.

You have which you obviously can't support. And thats fine. I just think its small to make the claim "the US has the best healthcare system period" without really knowing what you are talking about. I certainly don't know enough about it to make a claim either way.

Your views are libertarian. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you are indeed a libertarian, you should hate the current "right" just as much as it seems you hate the current "left". Thats for sure.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Your views are libertarian. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you are indeed a libertarian, you should hate the current "right" just as much as it seems you hate the current "left". Thats for sure.

Actually, we may have found the first thing we agree on. Yes, I definitely have some libertarian views. Those overlap a lot with fiscal conservative views. I am not a religious conservative.

I don't "hate" either side. But I guess I do get a little torqued that currently, being in Pennsylvania, I have solid blue representation President, 2 Senators, one Governor, and Congresspeople in the region, who are dismissive of anything BUT extreme left views. Then the press is so desperate to prop up this president and congress that the coverage is very warped.

Just common sense: How can they pass a $787 billion dollar stimulus plan without doing the math of "how much total debt is a good idea?" "When will we REPAY the debt?"

And to consider spending another trillion dollars to takeover the health care industry, which many people disagree with, how do you finance that? Even the "developing country" we are borrowing $1 trillion from (that sounds ridiculous doesn't it) is questioning our ability to repay it.

None of the government people, Republican or Democrat or Independent, have noticed that leaving debt for future generations amounts to indentured servitude. Many people, I think rightly, would view indentured servitude as having been outlawed by the 13th Amendment of the United States Constitution.

It is libertarian, and not hostile to either conservatives or liberals, to say that if the budget was balanced and debts repaid, and laissez faire economics being the rule and not the exception, that Americans would be the most free to pursue their dreams.

If a business or an individual cannot borrow indefinitely without being cut off and having a day of reckoning, why can a government? Just because it can print more money and take from the citizens through the mechanism of inflation? That doesn't seem like a good reason to me, and I would bet that a lot of people haven't put that all together yet.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

lets say you or a loved one needed brain surgery, heart surgery.....or any major surgery fort that matter..........would you go outside the u.s?

Sure..if it made fiscal or medical sense..in a sec. There are great doctors and hospitals all over the World

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I assume you meant "mortality" instead of morality..

Heck no, our babies are starting out immorally, and just getting worse as they age .... it's Obama's fault!

Joey, seriously, you need to google some basic health stats: American isn't in the upper echelon of any of them, unfortunately. We are 40th or worse in life expectancy. Infant mortality. Healthcare costs. Children living to over 5 years of age.

We are, however, excellent in the category of obesity.

Edit: These figures are from our own CIA. The United States, in 2009, is 50th in life expectancy rank, for a child born in 2009. The following are just some of the countries that have longer life expectancies than our own:

Germany
Belgium
Netherlands
Austria
Greece
Italy
United Kingdom
New Zealand
Finland
Jordon
Iceland
Israel
South Korea
Switzerland
Sweden
France
Canada
Australia
Puerto Rico
Bosnia
Denmark
Ireland
Portugal

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Heck no, our babies are starting out immorally, and just getting worse as they age .... it's Obama's fault!

Joey, seriously, you need to google some basic health stats: American isn't in the upper echelon of any of them, unfortunately. We are 40th or worse in life expectancy. Infant mortality. Healthcare costs. Children living to over 5 years of age.

We are, however, excellent in the category of obesity.

Edit: These figures are from our own CIA. The United States, in 2009, is 50th in life expectancy rank, for a child born in 2009. The following are just some of the countries that have longer life expectancies than our own:

Germany
Belgium
Netherlands
Austria
Greece
Italy
United Kingdom
New Zealand
Finland
Jordon
Iceland
Isreal
South Korea
Switzerland
Sweden
France
Canada
Australia
Puerto Rico
Bosnia
Denmark
Ireland
Portugal

I would make a huge bet that figure is made by our eating habits, not our healthcare. I mean, New Zealand and Ireland are on that list and they have crappy social healthcare. All the fast food and the "supersize" is what would lower us on that list, not healthcare.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I would make a huge bet that figure is made by our eating habits, not our healthcare. I mean, New Zealand and Ireland are on that list and they have crappy social healthcare. All the fast food and the "supersize" is what would lower us on that list, not healthcare.

No, sorry. This particular figure definitely includes healthcare that contributes to longevity in our country.

You don't have to guess or bet, you just have to look at how such figures are obtained and what they include, it's listed right there with the figures (this list is off the CIA's .gov website, readily obtained via a google search)

The WHO has similar, but slightly different, rankings, based upon inclusion and exclusion of a few other things.