MastComm tops Saint in Nat'l JCH (HAW)

[Betsy]

MC has developed into an awfully nice horse, though - whether he's grade 1 caliber, I don't know, but he's been pretty darn reliable.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

hey, its not every day you get .21 cents back for a 10 cent super.

Or hit the tri and wish you wouldn't have risked so much relying on 3 horses, when you could have just played the exacta.

[ddthetide]

is SNS not that good or am i missing something? i like this horse.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

is SNS not that good or am i missing something? i like this horse.

No idea, but he had it all his own way today and still couldn't win. Today has been hell

1) SNS doesn't win
2) Stupid Shane Laviolette actually wins a race to mess up ALL of my pick threes with Rolling Sea singled
3) BLAH

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

is SNS not that good or am i missing something? i like this horse.

He's fine. Not as good as Master Command however. Take away the Ill Derby and Ky Derby and all SNS races are virtually carbon copies. He's gonna run a 95-105 Beyer and that's that. That's not gonna win too many graded stakes however. In a good spot it may and will get you on the board a lot, and you'll dominate Laurel but it doesn't make you a star.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

He's fine. Not as good as Master Command however. Take away the Ill Derby and Ky Derby and all SNS races are virtually carbon copies. He's gonna run a 95-105 Beyer and that's that. That's not gonna win too many graded stakes however. In a good spot it may and will get you on the board a lot, and you'll dominate Laurel but it doesn't make you a star.

Well, I think the disappointment in that is that he's basically running the same figures at four that he was at three. Usually, there's some development from three to four, and that doesn't seem to have occurred with him.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Well, I think the disappointment in that is that he's basically running the same figures at four that he was at three. Usually, there's some development from three to four, and that doesn't seem to have occurred with him.

I'm still not sure. I thought he ran pretty well yesterday. I think a mile might be best for him. I thought the Hal's Hope was his best race this year, even though he didn't win I thought he did fine. His worst race was stretching from that to the Sunshine Millions Classic when he died the last furlong. I would try him in the Met Mile just to see him at a mile again against top competition...after running three straight at 9f now I think a drop back to 8f would serve him well. If he bombs there, then go back to well timed placings like the race yesterday where he got an easy 2nd place check. There's plenty of grade 2 and grade 3 races for him. I would certainly be tempted to try him in the Met Mile however.

[The Bid]

One of the more overrated horses in the last 48hrs in here. SNS that is.

[Danzig]

sns gets a lot of love because of his second in the preakness and his ill derby win.
but scrappy t came second the year before in the preakness. that position doesn't seem to mean squat.

[ArlJim78]

If you use bris, SNS's limitations stand out like a sore thumb.
He needs soft fields and an easy pace to get the job done, especially going two turns. Against ANY real competition, and in the prescense of an honest pace, he slows noticeably late. My conclusion: keep him in with softer company or running one turn races. His Hals Hope at the Gulfstream 1 turn mile was not bad at all.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Well, I think the disappointment in that is that he's basically running the same figures at four that he was at three. Usually, there's some development from three to four, and that doesn't seem to have occurred with him.

Joe,

That development occurs more with 'whole' horses... Not unusual with a gelding to get as good as he's goling to get and simply maintain that level. Saint has been consistant in terms of level of performance for an extended period, but as AJ suggests, is very one dimensional. He needs things his own way and will just chug along in spots earning nice checks which suits Trombetta and owners Balsalmo/Theos fine. Mike has talked about trying some new things with him like the grass as well. Frankly, yesterday he faced a horse that is better than him now and has more versatility for the kind of matchup they were sure to have.

[ateamstupid]

Maybe they should de-geld him.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Maybe they should de-geld him.

Wasn't much chance he was going to make it whole.. He nearly killed a farrier in Florida at 2 and badly injured a second one. He HATES them. When he would see the leather apron, he'd get crazed. Better about it now.

[rgustafson]

I am assuming that many of you watched this race yesterday. One thing I would like to metion is Pino's unecessary whipping of SNS down the stretch. Now, I'm not one of those who advocates taking whips away from jockeys. By the stretch call, SNS was beaten by 4 lengths and was a tired horse and was about 20 lengths ahead of the third place finisher. I believe that Pino even glanced over his shoulder to look behind him and then still used the whip on SNS. To my way of thinking, this showed a complete lack of consideration for his horse. If you haven't seen the race, check out a replay.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

I am assuming that many of you watched this race yesterday. One thing I would like to metion is Pino's unecessary whipping of SNS down the stretch. Now, I'm not one of those who advocates taking whips away from jockeys. By the stretch call, SNS was beaten by 4 lengths and was a tired horse and was about 20 lengths ahead of the third place finisher. I believe that Pino even glanced over his shoulder to look behind him and then still used the whip on SNS. To my way of thinking, this showed a complete lack of consideration for his horse. If you haven't seen the race, check out a replay.

My opinion on this matter is completely void of anything based in owning/training/riding a horse, so take it at face value.

I didn't think it was very excessive. I would guess* that the cracks he gave him were so that the horse was being persevered with. Of course he could have sat down in the saddle a pole from home and still finished second, but wouldn't he get in trouble for that? It's not like he was vigorously going after him with the whip like we'd see in a stretch duel -- he spent most of the stretch showing him the whip while using it four time after looking back and then riding him out after that.

Not sure about how an owner or trainer would feel -- but compare the use of the whip he was handing to 'Saint to the type of whipping we see in a race that's actually contested in the late stages. He was hardly getting after him to the pojnt where I'd label it a 'lack of consideration' with those few in the stretch.

Interested to see what others think, as I didn't find it that notable.

[rgustafson]

Brian, I don't mind a rider getting into a horse in a stretch duel, especially when my money is one the line. With regards to the race we are discussing, I just felt that a hand ride to the finish would have been more appropriate.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by rgustafson

Brian, I don't mind a rider getting into a horse in a stretch duel, especially when my money is one the line. With regards to the race we are discussing, I just felt that a hand ride to the finish would have been more appropriate.

Nah, I get what you're saying -- I was just commenting on the way Pino was whipping him, that it didn't seem like he was really going to town on him or anything...just a few whacks to keep him in line.

[slotdirt]

FYI, 95-105 Beyers will win most graded stakes races.

[JDank34]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

FYI, 95-105 Beyers will win most graded stakes races.

Not really