Denis of Cork passing Rebel; Wood next

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Finally got graded this year. Could probably run 5th in the Wood and be safe. Although anywhere behind Take of Ekati would be reason enough not to go to the Derby regardless of earnings.

Then Formulator has it wrong ( which is quite possible ) as I just checked it again and they listed it as ungraded.

I remember saying to Byk at the time that it seemed absurd that it wasn't a Graded race. I guess now maybe they won't need to split the Lexington.

[Kasept]

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. And Frankel, Pletcher, Romans, Dutrow, Levine, and many more ALL make placement decisions with their stock based on the TG or Ragozin figures, and mention them as a matter of course. So don't make it out like Carroll is doing something bizarre or unheard of...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. And Frankel, Pletcher, Romans, Dutrow, Levine, and many more ALL make placement decisions with their stock based on the TG or Ragozin figures, and mention them as a matter of course. So don't make it out like Carroll is doing something bizarre or unheard of...

Denis of Cork is a TG horse?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Scav

Denis of Cork is a TG horse?

No.

Originally Posted by Kasept

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. And Frankel, Pletcher, Romans, Dutrow, Levine, and many more ALL make placement decisions with their stack based on the TG or Ragozin figures, and mention them as a matter of course. So don't make it out like Carroll is doing something bizarre or unheard of...

Do they all shill for tg in interviews like Carroll did?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Do they all shill for tg in interviews like Carroll did?

LOL.. Sort of.. They will say in passing "So-and-so ran a "#" on the TG/Rags and we don't want to bring him/her back too soon after that kind of a career best, etc.." They aren't doing it to curry favor... They just mention it as part of their evaluation process. Some are more vocal about it than others.

[Oaklawnfan]

Could it be remotely possible they didn't want to go up against Golden Yank?

Originally Posted by Kasept

LOL.. Sort of.. They will say in passing "So-and-so ran a "#" on the TG/Rags and we don't want to bring him/her back too soon after that kind of a career best, etc.." They aren't doing it to curry favor... They just mention it as part of their evaluation process. Some are more vocal about it than others.

I just don't get the reasoning. Athletes need conditioning and they definitely need to be put in situations where they face adversity.

What are they saving this inexperienced horse for? All I've seen and heard from this barn are excuses. They talked like he hated the off going yet his breeding definitely didn't show that he would have a disdain for it. He beat Unbridled Vicar and that horse has proven to be less than stellar. He got the perfect setup in the Southwest. And now they're skipping the Rebel and going for one more prep until the Derby?

This horse, to me, has serious soundness issues and I'm not buying what they're selling. I'll commend them on their publicity campaign, but I've seen too many of those throughout the years to fall for the hype.

[The Bid]

I mean no disrespect to DC, hes a good horseman, and certainly a very nice guy. The fact of the matter is he gets real quality stock and wins at a solid clip, however he does fail to get his horses to the elite level. With the horses he gets he should be a powerhouse.

Oh, and as for the Thorographs...... any publication that touts Student Council as being a good horse you have to wonder.

If these trianers cant tell when a horse is ready for a big effort maybe they should consider another line of work. No sheet, thorograph, or otherwise, should dictate a horse being ready. A trainer who has a clue should be able to tell when his horses are ready to run, or when they need a break.

[Travis Stone]

No matter how you slice it, or who trains the horse, passing a race on the trail is never good.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I've admired Tagg's ability for a long time, . Now beloved as a crusty character, up to 2003 he was best known as a SOB... for a variety of good reasons.

.

He aint beloved by waiters or bartenders....cheapest man in America...and proud of it!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. .

aka, someone else is calling the shots.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Do they all shill for tg in interviews like Carroll did?

Hey, sheets are expensive

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Then Formulator has it wrong ( which is quite possible ) as I just checked it again and they listed it as ungraded.

I remember saying to Byk at the time that it seemed absurd that it wasn't a Graded race. I guess now maybe they won't need to split the Lexington.

Yeah, it's a Grade 3 as of this year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

If these trianers cant tell when a horse is ready for a big effort maybe they should consider another line of work. No sheet, thorograph, or otherwise, should dictate a horse being ready. A trainer who has a clue should be able to tell when his horses are ready to run, or when they need a break.

However the propaganda which is often shoved at owners (often by racing managers looking to prove their value on the payroll) says that because Frankel then Pletcher have been so sucessful because they use not only the numbers but the theory behind the numbers. Of course the fact they are sharp trainers who have great horses has no bearing on the outcome...must be the sheets

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

However the propaganda which is often shoved at owners (often by racing managers looking to prove their value on the payroll) says that because Frankel then Pletcher have been so sucessful because they use not only the numbers but the theory behind the numbers. Of course the fact they are sharp trainers who have great horses has no bearing on the outcome...must be the sheets

Well said!! Racing managers.....joke

[The Bid]

I guess if there is a huge operation a racing manager is needed, but 90 percent of these guys dont need a "racing manager"

The Sheets and Thorographs have reached the point of being obscene. I never understood trainers claiming exclusively off a figure.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by asudevil

Well said!! Racing managers.....joke

There are some pretty sharp guys that act in this role but usually they are the ones that the public doesnt hear about.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I guess if there is a huge operation a racing manager is needed, but 90 percent of these guys dont need a "racing manager"

The Sheets and Thorographs have reached the point of being obscene. I never understood trainers claiming exclusively off a figure.

In the era where there are a handful of trainers that have so many horses that they dont particualrly care if they make a bad claim, sheets are a a crutch to use in leiu of doing homework. Iwinski was a guy who I always respected not just because he won but because he was always out by the paddock at whatever track he was stabled at looking at the potential claims and making notes. Of course there are guys that still do this but usually they are smaller outfits that cant afford to make mistakes.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There are some pretty sharp guys that act in this role but usually they are the ones that the public doesnt hear about.

Absolutely...