Z Humor in the Fountain of Youth

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dylbert

Z Humor is strategic move. In the money finish keeps another horse from gaining graded earnings. He may not win but could easily run in top 4 spots. Also, running back on less rest is very old school. I agree with earlier post here -- let's see if he actually gets in starting gate.

You are right. They should run War Pass in every race along the way so he can prevent other horses from getting graded earnings and then only the top 20 in graded earnings will get in instead of the top 20 in graded earnings.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You are right. They should run War Pass in every race along the way so he can prevent other horses from getting graded earnings and then only the top 20 in graded earnings will get in instead of the top 20 in graded earnings.

Yeah his post was a bit far fetched..perhaps saphire driven

[ALostTexan]

Maybe Zayat should get into harness racing. Then he could run all of his horses every week or two. He is probably not too big to even drive them himself...

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yeah his post was a bit far fetched..perhaps saphire driven

It seemed a little topaz driven to me.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

It seemed a little topaz driven to me.

What a gem of a post!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

then only the top 20 in graded earnings will get in instead of the top 20 in graded earnings.

I laughed.

[dylbert]

8 EIGHTH RACE STAKES
The 62nd Running of The Fountain of Youth Stakes
$350,000 Guaranteed Grade II
FOR THREE YEAR OLDS. By subscription of $350 each by Sunday February 10,2008 which shall accompany the nomination, $3,500 to pass the entry box and $3,500 additional to start, with $350,000 Guaranteed. The owner of the winner to receive $210,000, $70,000 to second, $35,000 to third, $15,000 to fourth,$10,500 to fifth and $7,000 to sixth. Supplemental nominations may be made on Thursday, February 21, 2008, at a fee of $9,000, which includes entry and starting fees. Weight: 122 lbs. Non-winners of $75,000 twice at a mile or over, allowed, 2 lbs.; $75,000 once at any distance or $50,000 at a mile or over, 4 lbs.; $40,000 at any distance or $24,000 twice at a mile or over, 6 lbs. Starters to named through the entry box on Thursday February 21,2008 by the usual time of closing. Horses finishing first, second or third in the Fountain of Youth Stakes will automatically be nominated to the Florida Derby. Trophy to winning Owner. This race will be limited to 14 Starters, with Also Eligible. (High Weights Preferred). (Total lifetime earnings will be used according to equibase to determine the order of preference of horses with equal weight). All fees shall be paid prior to the start of the race.
Nominations Close Sunday, February 10, 2008
ONE MILE AND ONE EIGHTH

1. Finish first, second, or third receive nomination to Florida Derby -- this could block another horse or horses from entry in Florida Derby and potential graded earnings if horse with top 20 earnings finish in top 3 positions.
2. Race limited to 14 starters with preference to Total lifetime earnings -- again, block horse (or horses) from gaining graded earnings. If you are not in the race, you can't earn!
3. Cause trainer (or trainers) to move horse (or horses) to other venues where they are not familiar and may not succeed.

These are plausible actions by big money owners and trainers to ensure that their horses -- a) do make Kentucky Derby starting gate and b) that late bloomers can't accumulate sufficient earnings to supplant lesser horses. Yes, top 20 graded earners are ELIGIBLE to start. Who final 20 are is what is being sorted out as first Saturday in May approaches.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by dylbert

1. Finish first, second, or third receive nomination to Florida Derby -- this could block another horse or horses from entry in Florida Derby and potential graded earnings if horse with top 20 earnings finish in top 3 positions.

If anyone wants to get in the Florida Derby they will pay the nomination fee to get in even if they don't qualify because they <giggle> lost to Z Humor in the Fountain of Youth.

Originally Posted by dylbert

2. Race limited to 14 starters with preference to Total lifetime earnings -- again, block horse (or horses) from gaining graded earnings. If you are not in the race, you can't earn!

Sure is a good thing that Z Humor was the 12th horse in a race restricted to 14 starters. Good thing he was able to block all those other horses that wanted to get in.

Originally Posted by dylbert

3. Cause trainer (or trainers) to move horse (or horses) to other venues where they are not familiar and may not succeed.

Who is moving a horse somewhere else because of the inclusion of Z Humor in the field? No one even knew he was going to be in the field to move somewhere else until entries came out.

Originally Posted by dylbert

These are plausible actions by big money owners and trainers to ensure that their horses -- a) do make Kentucky Derby starting gate

Z Humor could rest from now until the Derby and have a spot in the starting gate if they want to run him there.

Originally Posted by dylbert

These are plausible actions by big money owners and trainers to ensure that their horses and b) that late bloomers can't accumulate sufficient earnings to supplant lesser horses. Yes, top 20 graded earners are ELIGIBLE to start. Who final 20 are is what is being sorted out as first Saturday in May approaches.

The late bloomers will have to prove themselves in the final preps where everyone will be trying to "block" them if they want to get in. Late bloomers aren't a worry in February.



Note to self - find something better to do next Friday night than respond to posts like this.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by monipenny

How could Z Humor's effort be described as bad in the Sam Davis at Tampa? This horse never lifted a foot on that track at Tampa, and there is no way that Mott runs this guy back for the Tampa Derby. Tampa is a funny track and some really love it or don't at all. He expended no energy last week and ran slower then he would run in a listed workout. Mott makes the right decision running him back at GP and this horse has the speed to be right there at the end. I hope they run cause his odds will be inflated off his last debacle at TBD. Here's hoping this derby prep produces some interesting options for races to come.

You are right, atrocious is probably a better word.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by monipenny

How could Z Humor's effort be described as bad in the Sam Davis at Tampa? This horse never lifted a foot on that track at Tampa, and there is no way that Mott runs this guy back for the Tampa Derby. Tampa is a funny track and some really love it or don't at all. He expended no energy last week and ran slower then he would run in a listed workout. Mott makes the right decision running him back at GP and this horse has the speed to be right there at the end. I hope they run cause his odds will be inflated off his last debacle at TBD. Here's hoping this derby prep produces some interesting options for races to come.

He was fighting hard on the pace the entire way and led as the field turned for home. How can this possibly be construed as " never lifting a hoof? "

As for the second highlighted part.....if you don't think the owner of Z Humor forced Mott to enter the horse then I have a number of bridges I would like to sell you.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by monipenny

If I imply that it was Mott's decision then that IS probably wrong, but why not run back in this race if the intentions are not to run back in the Tampa Derby? I believe the plans were scraped when Z Humor didn't run well at TBD, and Zayat said screw it and altered plans. This certainly does not have to be the case but I would bet that he's in the starting gate on Sunday for the Fountain of Youth. Cornelio has a good starting position with post #5, and his speed plays nicely for these 1 1/8 races at GP. I certainly don't know if he's the goods, but im willing to take the price for what he will be on Sunday.

Why not? Because bringing back a horse that tires badly on the lead in one week unplanned is just begging for an injury not to mention another poor performance. The horse has the earnings to get in the Derby if that is the goal. There are countless other spots they could send him besides the Tampa Bay Derby. There is absolutely no way that Mott wants to run him here.

[Danzig]

didn't mott just get some former baffert horses from zayat?
trainers don't become top trainers by telling owners with huge pocketbooks to 'f off'. i doubt that mott is concerned that running back in a week will be a health issue for the horse.
now as to whether it'll be an embarrassment issue is another story. it's no skin off motts nose if z humor runs a clunker-and it wasn't HIS idea to run, but the owners.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by monipenny

I agree there are other spots to run him. Most notably would be the derby preps at Oaklawn like the Rebel and then Arkansas Derby, but the FOY came up in his own backyard and you don't have to ship out of state. You certainly will never persuade me that this horse is worse for the wear by running this weekend by what transpired last weekend. Mott has lost clients before when he told clients to F off- he doesn't need the money that badly- he got a ton from Paulson when Cigar was retired and also fringe breeding rights to Theatrical. Shakespeare was a horse that Mott trained that bowed who had tremendous potential and accomplished some great things but he lost the horse and KM got him only to break down a few races later. Ahmad Zayat is not the only owner in this game ya know?

I think you are missing the point that he has enough earnings to get into the derby. He does not have to ship to run in a prep race, he can run in any allowance race on the grounds to stay fit.

[PPerfectfan]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The colt was completely spent BEFORE he ever ran a step in the race.

Exactly, by all accounts, he was a total total mess before. Washed out, dripping wet, as he was even comming over to the paddock and only got worse in the paddock. I am willing to forgive him for that race. That being said, I dont know if he is a good enough horse anyway. I really liked him in the Juvy and he dissapointed me.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by monipenny

I agree there are other spots to run him. Most notably would be the derby preps at Oaklawn like the Rebel and then Arkansas Derby, but the FOY came up in his own backyard and you don't have to ship out of state. You certainly will never persuade me that this horse is worse for the wear by running this weekend by what transpired last weekend. Mott has lost clients before when he told clients to F off- he doesn't need the money that badly- he got a ton from Paulson when Cigar was retired and also fringe breeding rights to Theatrical. Shakespeare was a horse that Mott trained that bowed who had tremendous potential and accomplished some great things but he lost the horse and KM got him only to break down a few races later. Ahmad Zayat is not the only owner in this game ya know?

No Zayat isn't the only owner but Bill won't tell him to F-off for this reason:

Zayat has approx 40 horses with Mott (about 25% of his whole stable)....At a volume discount of 80 bucks a day training fees that's $96,000/month coming in or close 1.2 million a year.

Bill has a large payroll with staff in NY, FL, and KY.

Cigar hasn't raced in almost a dozen years and the Theatrical money is ancillary.

So I respectfully disagree that Bill would send Ahmad packing with the economics described above.

[Travis Stone]

Has the horse scratched yet? It's odd more hasn't been authored about him in the presses, as if they know its coming.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Has the horse scratched yet? It's odd more hasn't been authored about him in the presses, as if they know its coming.

I would guess that more isn't in the press because, first of all, well you know, but mostly because Mott will take the heat as that's his job. That's what trainers have to do. He's never going to say " we're only running because the owner is making me against my wishes. "

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would guess that more isn't in the press because, first of all, well you know, but mostly because Mott will take the heat as that's his job. That's what trainers have to do. He's never going to say " we're only running because the owner is making me against my wishes. "

Absolutely. I'm 110% speculating on this one. The whole situation is crazy really. I might eat crow on this, but to me this is like "How not to win the Derby 101."

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by monipenny

I have to respectfully disagree that Bill DOES NOT have a large payroll to pay for staff in KY. Where have you been man? Mott hasn't run shhhit in KY for almost ten years, and most if not all the stock running in KY is strictly second tier horses'. His best have been running almost strictly in NY and FL.

Just because they are second tier horses doesn't mean he doesn't have a pretty serious payroll. Or, perhaps you think people only get paid if the horses are top quality.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by monipenny

No he doesn't have a serious payroll compared to what he pays at FL and NY tracks. The number of horses' stabled at CD pales in comparison to what he has at NY in that same time of year. His operation is very small in KY compared to elsewhere, and he mostly keeps horses' in KY to keep up with appearances.

OK, fine, and the person you chose to argue with said he had a large payroll with staff in FL, KY and NY. He didn't say a large payroll in NY....a large payroll in FL.....and a large payroll in KY. He was simply pointing out his enormous overhead, a fact, and the nature of doing business. Frankly, I think he has a better handle on the overall situation involving trainers and owners than you seem to realize.