Kevin Durant: the comparisons

Originally Posted by ddthetide

i think durant and texas get Tar Heeled next week.

If Texas gets there I agree. NC is much much tougher inside than Texas. Texas would have to make this a completely run and gun game to win, again, if they get there.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Samarta

I must be watching a different guy. All you have to do is listen to the experts. I'm not talking about old play by play guys, I'm talking about guys like Magic, Barkley, Smith, and all the ESPN guys. All they do is talk about what a freak he is. Never not one time has anyone mentioned a lack of athleticism. This guy is hands down the MVP. 7 footer, that basically plays between a 2 or 3. Sure he gives up points, but the upside is he is the MVP.

He is a freak because of his offensive skills at his size, not because he is athletic. In the NBA there really arent 2's or 3's. It is all about matchups and exploiting them. He is a tough match up because of his shooting skills. It is hard for most guys his size to play perimeter D and if they put a smaller man on him, Dallas will try to post him where he can take advantage of his size. Height and touch are not athletic attributes. I never said he was not a great player and I could care less what TV analysts say because they are paid to talk up the guys that are going to be featured on their networks. What they tell you as the general public is often contrary to what they really believe. My observations are based upon watching an unhealthy amount of games and talking candidly, off the record with knowledgeable basketball people. It is all just opinion but I do enjoy the debates.

Mr. Cannon is correct I believe about the offensive skills Dirk has developed. They are quite extraordinary. Where we disagree I believe is what athletic is. Dirk is not a guy that flies thru the air jamming balls. I just happen to think his mobility is tremendous. He is not a great leaper (either is Durant BTW). But thats not what I look at. Dirk can dunk the ball mightly if needed, he is just wise enough to understand the effort is better used in other areas like keeping the ball alive on the offensive end after a missed shot which he is a master at. And that takes mobility, quick feet. I call that athletic.

And I also agree about the announcers/ anlaysts. Thats why they are in the booth and not GM's. Just because they are ex-players does not mean the evaluate talent properly. They are entertainers.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

But thats not what I look at. Dirk can dunk the ball mightly

I hope he can... he is 7 feet tall!

I think he has good footwork for a player of his size but that does not equate to athletism to me.

When I think of athletic I think of tests like the NFL combine. A guy may be a great "athlete" but not a great player. He may have more athletic skill but not skills specific to his sport. His athletic score may be high but his playing abilities and insticts are not there.

Pgardn, Have you ever watched Dirk in person?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hope he can... he is 7 feet tall!

I think he has good footwork for a player of his size but that does not equate to athletism to me.

When I think of athletic I think of tests like the NFL combine. A guy may be a great "athlete" but not a great player. He may have more athletic skill but not skills specific to his sport. His athletic score may be high but his playing abilities and insticts are not there.

Pgardn, Have you ever watched Dirk in person?

Yes. On the floor level. And will tell you again he is athletic. You have to look who he is playing against as a yardstick. He is more athletic than Durant, whom I have also watched floor level in Austin. I will also tell you Tony Parker is the fastest person I have ever seen in the NBA with the ball. I will tell you Tim Duncan has no hops anymore, but has the best hands of any big man in the NBA.

Get a little lucky with tickets here and there. The guy who coached my daughter in AAU roomed with Spurs assistant RC Buford (a great guy at picking talent, partially responsible for Parker, Ginobili and Barbosa now on Phoenix). They both played on the ATM 1980 team that beat North Carolina and went further in the NCAA than any ATM playoff team. So I do get to talk with people who watch. Buford was on the Bench. Sylestine played and was a great role player for that team. And I do not always agree with these guys either.

I will continue further by saying if those stupid Aggies dont pay Billy Gillispie more money they will lose one of the best coaches in college basketball. A guy a would take over Rick Barnes. A guy who just outcoached Rick Pitino imo.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Pgardn, Have you ever watched Dirk in person?

Have you ever watched the Spurs play Dallas? on the floor more than once?

[ddthetide]

maybe you guys are comparing durant at the wrong level. no way will he ever shoot the ball like the Iceman. think back through the ncaa tourny.
Walter Davis was as-smooth-as it gets. 6'7" and ran the floor like a greyhound. Sam Bowie and Ralph Sampson were two of the most athletic 7'ers of all time. Bowie couldn't stay health. Sam Perkins was tough but looked awkward because he was left-handed. Pervis Ellison didn't have alot of range but was deadly from 10ft and played excellent defense.

if texas advances, Durant has to face Hansborough and that UNC 10 man rotation. Hansborough is no slouch! IF UT would survive UNC, i can't see Durant having enough gas left for the regional finals..... JMO

[skippy3481]

Durants body reminds me alot of teyshaun prince in college. Now scoring wise they aren't even close. But with the length and wingspan. He will get bigger in the nba, he's only 19 and he is so tall he hasen't had time to pack on muscle. No doubt he'll at least be a solid nba player.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes. On the floor level. And will tell you again he is athletic. You have to look who he is playing against as a yardstick. He is more athletic than Durant, whom I have also watched floor level in Austin. I will also tell you Tony Parker is the fastest person I have ever seen in the NBA with the ball. I will tell you Tim Duncan has no hops anymore, but has the best hands of any big man in the NBA.

Ok I officially give up.

Tony Parker is fast with the ball but no one was faster end to end than Jason Kidd in his prime. He is getting up there now. Duncan never could jump much. He is still a great player but you can see the edge of the cliff approaching.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Get a little lucky with tickets here and there. The guy who coached my daughter in AAU roomed with Spurs assistant RC Buford (a great guy at picking talent, partially responsible for Parker, Ginobili and Barbosa now on Phoenix). They both played on the ATM 1980 team that beat North Carolina and went further in the NCAA than any ATM playoff team. So I do get to talk with people who watch. Buford was on the Bench. Sylestine played and was a great role player for that team. And I do not always agree with these guys either.

I will continue further by saying if those stupid Aggies dont pay Billy Gillispie more money they will lose one of the best coaches in college basketball. A guy a would take over Rick Barnes. A guy who just outcoached Rick Pitino imo.

My cousin is an NBA head coach so I can get serious seats.
Agree on Gillespie. Very good coach. Was at the FL/Purdue and Memphis/Nevada today. What happen to the Horns?

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

My cousin is an NBA head coach so I can get serious seats.
Agree on Gillespie. Very good coach. Was at the FL/Purdue and Memphis/Nevada today. What happen to the Horns?

If Texas gets there I agree. NC is much much tougher inside than Texas. Texas would have to make this a completely run and gun game to win, again, if they get there.

Nothing unexpected with kids that young. 18-19 year olds getting played that long, two tourney's in a row... that very tough for kids not physically mature yet. And mentally...

Cool. Who is he? I bet he knows RC Buford. I would have bet Byron Scott based on your tickets, but I got the feeling I am very wrong. I really would like to know cause I got questions about some players if he cares to share opinions after the season is over. You may already know the answers, how he feels.

BTW Bob Hill's son (Coach of Seattle) was also at my High School and played ball. A lot of the wealthier folks went to that Highs school so a lot of Spurs kids did to. Looks like Bob will probably be moving again. Bob Hill got canned as the Spurs head coach a year before the coach at our High School got canned, so that was kind of ironic for his son.

Oh yes. I hold by Tony Parker also.(im stubborn, fastest I have ever seen, faster than Iverson or anyone else you want to name. Not quicker but faster) I also had season tickets to the Spurs when they first started in the ABA well into the losing years in the NBA. So I got to see a whole bunch of very good players there up close. George McGinnis (a savage ala Karl Malone; would have been a great matchup), and so many more. Bit of a junkie I am.

[ddthetide]

fastest end to end with the ball may have been kenny smith. he was a 60 meter track champ.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

fastest end to end with the ball may have been kenny smith. he was a 60 meter track champ.

AI aint exactly slow....

Originally Posted by ddthetide

fastest end to end with the ball may have been kenny smith. he was a 60 meter track champ.

Saw Kenny also. A very likeable fellow based on his TV personality. Parker would smoke him. Last year. This year Parker has been really beaten up.

[Samarta]

I gotta agree with Kev....AI was the quickest and fastest with the ball....he's probably broken more ankles than all the others combined....

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hope he can... he is 7 feet tall!

I think he has good footwork for a player of his size but that does not equate to athletism to me.

When I think of athletic I think of tests like the NFL combine. A guy may be a great "athlete" but not a great player. He may have more athletic skill but not skills specific to his sport. His athletic score may be high but his playing abilities and insticts are not there.

Pgardn, Have you ever watched Dirk in person?

Was Larry Bird athletic?

Originally Posted by Samarta

I gotta agree with Kev....AI was the quickest and fastest with the ball....he's probably broken more ankles than all the others combined....

AI is very fast, but he is so hard to guard because of his change in direction(quick). Tony Parker would smoke him with the ball one end of the floor to the other, smoke him like a fat cigar. And I really am dead serious. He is the fastest player from one end of the court to the other that I have ever seen. The kid from Dallas is almost as fast, Harris.

Originally Posted by Samarta

Was Larry Bird athletic?

In my opinion no, not compared to the normal NBA player. Compared to us he is super man. In college he was more athletic than the majority of people he played against.

Larry Legend saw the floor like no other forward. Larry felt the pace of the game like no other forward. Larry was a basketball savant. A large Steve Nash in my mind. Larry had hands, Larry knew positioning, Larry's reaction time was incredibly fast. Larry hated to lose. I hated Larry but respected his talents.

There is a little reaction time experiment anyone can do:

1. Hold thumb and forefinger 1 cm apart.
2. Have a geeky friend (pgardn) hold a cm ruler just above thumb and forefinger in a vertical position.
3. Have geeky friend drop ruler at an unknown time and you try to catch it between thumb and fore finger.
4. Make sure experimentee (yourself) does not anticipate drop. Just watches drop from your geeky friend. Have your geeky friend fake it if your are trying to anticipate instead of watching for the drop.
5. Do this about 10 times and measure where you catch the ruler, in cm. Throw out the two largest and smallest numbers . TAke average of the six "good data" numbers left.
6. TAke the average number, multiply by 20, divide by 9.81, then take the square root of this number.
7. The number should be around 0.2, and this is your reaction time in seconds.

This is the time it takes for your eyes to receive the reflected light off the ruler, processing in the CNS, message sent back to muscles in thumb and forefinger, thumb and forefinger contract catching ruler. A fairly eventful biological process.

Larry would be well under 0.2 s. People my age will be well above... 0.27 seconds or so.

8. Report your findings back to me. PM me and I will share results with the rest of the board.
9. We will all write a paper and submit it to a Journal that no one reads except for people like me.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Samarta

Was Larry Bird athletic?

Was not a strong point. He was tremendously skilled and had rare instincts but I would not label him as athletic as it pertains to NBA players.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

AI is very fast, but he is so hard to guard because of his change in direction(quick). Tony Parker would smoke him with the ball one end of the floor to the other, smoke him like a fat cigar. And I really am dead serious. He is the fastest player from one end of the court to the other that I have ever seen. The kid from Dallas is almost as fast, Harris.

With the ball, JKidd.