Howard Baker passes

[Danzig]

for more evolution examples, look at the horse. from eohippus to the modern horse is a great example of evolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse

'popping a splint' is a term we've all heard. a splint bone is one of two ones on either side of a horses lower leg. it's the remnants of the horses other two toes that were once a part of the foot. the hoof is made of the same material as your hair and fingernails, and evolved from their toe-horses essentially stand on tip toe.
i took a picture of the back of a horses leg when in charleston-they have a full horse skeleton on display.

also, check out 'ashfall' in nebraska, a fantastic fossil site. we were taught in school that the first horses came to north america with the european explorers..

not quite.
among the remains at the fossil site are both one and three toed horses!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfall

also camels and rhinos. there were rhinos here once upon a time. i hope to go there next year, along with a couple other sites in wyoming, i have the route mapped out on my work computer.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I didn't read the whole article. That was a long article. I skimmed over it. The title was "Why everything you've been told about evolution is wrong."

I have a question for you. Do you think evolution has been proven or is it just a theory? From my searches on google, everything I'm seeing says that it is still just a theory. There may be parts to it that are proven but there are still way too many parts that are unproven. That is why it is still referred to as a "theory".

Here is a page that gives a non-religious summary of the scientific evidence for both creationism and evolution.

http://www.icr.org/article/summary-s...-for-creation/

groan.

yeah, it's just a theory the same way gravity is 'just a theory'.

risk said it quite well, scientific theory is not the type of theory you're thinking of rupert.

we need to get schools to do a better job in teaching science.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

groan.

yeah, it's just a theory the same way gravity is 'just a theory'.

risk said it quite well, scientific theory is not the type of theory you're thinking of rupert.

we need to get schools to do a better job in teaching science.

My only question is how human life started. I believe there is a Creator. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in natural selection. I do believe in natural selection. I think it is a fact that species "evolve". But knowing that species evolve does not show how life actually started.

With regards to gravity, I assumed that gravity was more than a theory. We hear about the "laws of gravity". But after doing an internet search, I do see that it says gravity is technically still a theory, so you may be right with your analogy.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

My only question is how human life started. I believe there is a Creator. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in natural selection. I do believe in natural selection. I think it is a fact that species "evolve". But knowing that species evolve does not show how life actually started.

With regards to gravity, I assumed that gravity was more than a theory. We hear about the "laws of gravity". But after doing an internet search, I do see that it says gravity is technically still a theory, so you may be right with your analogy.

evolution has nothing to do with how life began. it explains the diversity of life, not the origin of life.
it's why i don't get the argument that is so often made by creationists, because they argue incessantly against the theory of evolution, and produce creationism or intelligent design as counter arguments-but they aren't. they are guesses as to how life began, and no one knows for sure how it began, what sparked it. the big bang theory is the scientific idea for how the universe began, and all that's in it. as to how life itself began-we may never know exactly how.
that doesn't mean tho, that therefore 'god'.
mapmakers used to write at the edge of the known world 'here be dragons'. they had no idea what was there, so they put the mystical.
some people still like to do that now, i just wish they'd understand that others (such as myself) enjoy life, our brief time here on this little speck of dust, that we feel lucky to be here, and want to leave things better than we found it, without having to believe in something only on faith.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

My only question is how human life started. I believe there is a Creator. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in natural selection. I do believe in natural selection. I think it is a fact that species "evolve". But knowing that species evolve does not show how life actually started.

With regards to gravity, I assumed that gravity was more than a theory. We hear about the "laws of gravity". But after doing an internet search, I do see that it says gravity is technically still a theory, so you may be right with your analogy.

As Danzig said below, how the universe came to be is not the purview of evolution. There are three branches of Science- Physics, Biology and Chemistry. It's an easy way to weed out a lot of Creationist sites that insist they're approaching evolution scientifically. If they bring up the Big Bang, they're not talking about Biology; they're talking about Physics and a site that doesn't know the difference is not going to be very informative.

As to whether she "may" be right with her analogy- there's no "may" about it; she is right. Theory with a big T vs theory with a small t. Seriously, look at the link I posted about 5 misconceptions about evolution. It'll make things much clearer to you.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

also, check out 'ashfall' in nebraska, a fantastic fossil site. we were taught in school that the first horses came to north america with the european explorers..

not quite.
among the remains at the fossil site are both one and three toed horses!

That's one of the things I find so interesting about large mammals in North America- horses were here, then died out, then were reintroduced by the Spanish.

It ties into an argument I have will well-meaning animal rights people who opposed carriage horses- despite what they think, we don't have "wild" horses here; the Mustangs are better described as "feral" because 500 years of being loose on a range doesn't counteract 6000 years of domestication. The only truly wild species of horse is Przewalski's. This link is to a fact sheet on them; the first part is about their taxonomy and that, while they are closely related to the domestic horse, the domestic horse is not descended from them:

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/41763/0

I'm glad evolution was brought up in this thread. I love this sh*t. Biodiversity is incredibly fascinating.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

That's one of the things I find so interesting about large mammals in North America- horses were here, then died out, then were reintroduced by the Spanish.

It ties into an argument I have will well-meaning animal rights people who opposed carriage horses- despite what they think, we don't have "wild" horses here; the Mustangs are better described as "feral" because 500 years of being loose on a range doesn't counteract 6000 years of domestication. The only truly wild species of horse is Przewalski's. This link is to a fact sheet on them; the first part is about their taxonomy and that, while they are closely related to the domestic horse, the domestic horse is not descended from them:

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/41763/0

I'm glad evolution was brought up in this thread. I love this sh*t. Biodiversity is incredibly fascinating.

it really is so cool. cosmos touched on it a few times, like when they discussed dogs. i'd never thought about it til they covered it in the show. that's selective evolution, just like cows and horses.

i worked with a woman who didn't believe races should marry, she used the different types of birds to explain why-robins with robins, blue jays with blue jays.
it burst her bubble when i pointed out that birds will mate with birds of other species, and asked her about horses not caring what color the other horse was!
our own pigment differences are due to evolution and geography.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it really is so cool. cosmos touched on it a few times, like when they discussed dogs. i'd never thought about it til they covered it in the show. that's selective evolution, just like cows and horses.

i worked with a woman who didn't believe races should marry, she used the different types of birds to explain why-robins with robins, blue jays with blue jays.
it burst her bubble when i pointed out that birds will mate with birds of other species, and asked her about horses not caring what color the other horse was!
our own pigment differences are due to evolution and geography.

And it's also so interesting how genes will be placed on the DNA thread- like how so many Dalmations are deaf because a gene linked to deafness is located near one that cause piebald coloring in fur.

Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel did a great 15 minute piece on dog shows, and had some good images of what we've done to some dog breeds over a century. I was unaware that shorter muzzles make it hard for dogs to cool themselves, which is why Bulldogs and Pekinese and other smooshed-in-face dogs overheat so fast.

We have a Staffordshire mix we got from a shelter, but she looks more like bulldogs from a century ago Evolution is not a straight line, for sure. Not that she'll be contributing anymore; she's spayed.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And it's also so interesting how genes will be placed on the DNA thread- like how so many Dalmations are deaf because a gene linked to deafness is located near one that cause piebald coloring in fur.

Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel did a great 15 minute piece on dog shows, and had some good images of what we've done to some dog breeds over a century. I was unaware that shorter muzzles make it hard for dogs to cool themselves, which is why Bulldogs and Pekinese and other smooshed-in-face dogs overheat so fast.

We have a Staffordshire mix we got from a shelter, but she looks more like bulldogs from a century ago Evolution is not a straight line, for sure. Not that she'll be contributing anymore; she's spayed.

i have a mix breed dog, she looks like a schnauzer. have had several ask about getting one of her pups when she has a litter. sorry, she's spayed. i was studying her feet, with declaws dogs have the same number of 'fingers' we have, but they have paws instead of hands. we have a foot so we can stand upright (easier to carry things if we walk instead of being on all fours), they have more leg.
true about evolution not being a straight line, it also doesn't necessarily change things for the better, it has no moral compass or goal.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i have a mix breed dog, she looks like a schnauzer. have had several ask about getting one of her pups when she has a litter. sorry, she's spayed. i was studying her feet, with declaws dogs have the same number of 'fingers' we have, but they have paws instead of hands. we have a foot so we can stand upright (easier to carry things if we walk instead of being on all fours), they have more leg.
true about evolution not being a straight line, it also doesn't necessarily change things for the better, it has no moral compass or goal.

Ours still has her dewclaws, too. A lot of vets recommend removing them, especially on hunting dogs because they aren't really attached by anything other than skin and can get torn off in the field, but, eh, they don't seem to be causing her any trouble and her "hunting" is limited to fetching a Chuck It. I read somewhere that long ago they helped the wild ancestors of the dog grasp food.

She also has her ears and tail. Good, because I don't approve of docking, especially for dogs that are just pets, but I do understand the temptation to dock the tail. Effing thing is like a whip. She's knocked stuff off tables with it and given me a welt on my shin from overenthusiastic wagging.

[Danzig]

the people who had the mom had the pups rear dewclaws removed, and they docked their tails . i hate they cut their tails off, but i can imagine how much she'd knock over with that thing.