A question on Easy Goer...

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Lots of Kool Aid being drank this year in regards to a few "superhorses".
I think we've talked about some REAL superhorses on this thread, and I hope I get to see some more.
I was younger when these horses ran, and I guess I took for granted that what i was witnessing was always gonna be there in some form.
I wonder how many folks who have read this thread and thought about Formal Gold, Skip Away, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer,etc and saw their figs and got red faced about buying the hype on a few horses lately.

Even with all the talk about the youngsters jumping to call any 'now' horse a great horse or a superhorse, I will say in all honesty that even though I was still relatively a kid (edit: after reading what i wrote...i was not relatively a kid...i WAS a kid), I understood that Skip Away was great when I was watching him on TV.

I understood, having followed Cigar's streak, that I was in the presence of greatness when I went to the Arlington-Citation challenge because i made my mom take me even when she didn't want to brave the crowds that day I forced her to.

I honestly think that Skip Away is the best horse I've ever seen in the time I've been interested in this sport -- with Cigar and Ghostzapper close seconds.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Even with all the talk about the youngsters jumping to call any 'now' horse a great horse or a superhorse, I will say in all honesty that even though I was still relatively a kid, I understood that Skip Away was great when I was watching him on TV.

I understood, having followed Cigar's streak, that I was in the presence of greatness when I went to the Arlington-Citation challenge because i made my mom take me even when she didn't want to brave the crowds that day I forced her to.

I honestly think that Skip Away is the best horse I've ever seen in the time I've been interested in this sport -- with Cigar and Ghostzapper close seconds.

Cigar was the first dramatically overrated horse of the spate of overrated horses we have seen. He was a trendsetter!

Skip Away was better, on his best days, and he ran some great races, but I wouldn't call him a great horse.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Cigar was the first dramatically overrated horse of the spate of overrated horses we have seen. He was a trendsetter!

Skip Away was better, on his best days, and he ran some great races, but I wouldn't call him a great horse.

I respectfully disagree, and leave it at that.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Cigar was the first dramatically overrated horse of the spate of overrated horses we have seen. He was a trendsetter!

Skip Away was better, on his best days, and he ran some great races, but I wouldn't call him a great horse.

There is a broader view of "greatness" that doesn't rely wholly on speed. I think it's appropriate to factor in durability and consistency. It's pretty clear that Cigar was about as consistent as they come. Bravado's list shows 16 races with Beyer's of 111 or above. How many different tracks did Cigar win at?

I love a horse like Ghostzapper, too. But if we imagine a hypothetical year in which Cigar faced Ghostzapper 10 times at a 3-4 week spacing, each race at a different track, who do you think would have won the most races? I'd bet on Cigar. Ghostzapper would certainly have beaten Cigar when both ran their best race, but Cigar ran close to his best race over and over again, and it was pretty damn good no matter where it was. He ran Beyers of 117-121 six times. And how about that race in Dubai? I would call Cigar a "great" horse.

--Dunbar

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

There is a broader view of "greatness" that doesn't rely wholly on speed. I think it's appropriate to factor in durability and consistency. It's pretty clear that Cigar was about as consistent as they come. Bravado's list shows 16 races with Beyer's of 111 or above. How many different tracks did Cigar win at?

I love a horse like Ghostzapper, too. But if we imagine a hypothetical year in which Cigar faced Ghostzapper 10 times at a 3-4 week spacing, each race at a different track, who do you think would have won the most races? I'd bet on Cigar. Ghostzapper would certainly have beaten Cigar when both ran their best race, but Cigar ran close to his best race over and over again, and it was pretty damn good no matter where it was. He ran Beyers of 117-121 six times. And how about that race in Dubai? I would call Cigar a "great" horse.

--Dunbar

I would agree that Cigar's one truly exceptional quality was the ability to perform at a very high level with true consistency. He was obviously a terrific horse but he was nowhere close to an all-time great.

I'm sure Ghostzapper had issues, but I'm also sure having a trainer that seems to consider scratching better than winning didn't help his career resume, and Cigar was obviously more durable. So, he certainly rated to make more money than Ghostzapper, but his best race was not good enough to beat Ghostzapper on a normal day. Not that far off however.