A question on Easy Goer...

Originally Posted by JJP

I guess that would make Sunday Silence about a 180 then since the only time he lost to EG was at the irrelevant distance.

Holy Bull? He'd better hope Cigar wasn't in the same race as him.

What have you been smoking?
Irrelevant distance? You ever even see that race? Distance made no difference. Easy had him the whole way anytime he wanted him.
Now what made the difference? The difference was that they had tight security on the barn SS was in before the race and ole Doc Harthill couldnt stop by.
I think that theory is lot better than yours. A length, a nose and a neck as opposed to the length of the stretch?
The program should have read, Harthill off. ****, Easy Goer couldnt even have Lasix and Harthill's working on SS and doing his preraces. everyplace except NY that was, and he got his ass handed to him.

I guess its just "a coiincidence" that the one time they met and Harthill couldn't get near SS that SS got bitchslapped by a pole huh?

[Bravado2112]

Holy Bull
Olympic - 117

Woodward - 116
Travers - 115
Haskell - 115
Dwyer - 119
Met Mile - 122
Derby - 85
Bluegrass - 113
Fla Derby - 115
FOY - 57
Hutch - 108

In Reality - 93
Futurity - 103
Alw - 91
MSW - 101

Cigar
BC Classic - 115
JC Gold Cup - 115
Woodward - 116
Pacific Classic - 111
Arlington - 117
Mass Cap - 112
Donn - 117

BC Classic - 117
JC Gold Cup - 111
Woodward - 111
Hol Gold Cup - 118
Mass Cap - 117
Pim Special - 114
Oaklawn - 121
GP Handicap - 116
Donn - 114
Alw - 108

[Bravado2112]

Ghostzapper
Met Mile - 123

BC Classic - 124
Woodward - 114
Iselin - 128
Tom Fool - 120

Vosburgh - 116
King's Bishop - 106
Alw - 99
Alw - 102

Alw - 84
MSW - 99

Bravado I don't know who you are but PLEASE come back and give us Alysheba's numbers. I have to see those.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bravado I don't know who you are but PLEASE come back and give us Alysheba's numbers. I have to see those.

....... sheba4 has horrible numbers........he is a digrace to the capping colony, it was like a 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest this year

Originally Posted by alysheba4

....... sheba4 has horrible numbers........he is a digrace to the capping colony, it was like a 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest this year

LOL!!
I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to your namesake.
I'd love to see his numbers and the number on that incredible Belmont race.

[Bravado2112]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bravado I don't know who you are but PLEASE come back and give us Alysheba's numbers. I have to see those.

I don't think I have anything beyond what I posted unfortunately. Would love to see them myself. I recall reading that he ran a 113 in the Preakness and I know his BC Classic was a 122. Somewhere in my old room at home I have a DRF with a list of the BC winning figs from the first several years but I haven't been able to find it - that would obviously produce his # against Ferdinand. Have to look again next time I'm at my parent's house.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

I don't think I have anything beyond what I posted unfortunately. Would love to see them myself. I recall reading that he ran a 113 in the Preakness and I know his BC Classic was a 122. Somewhere in my old room at home I have a DRF with a list of the BC winning figs from the first several years but I haven't been able to find it - that would obviously produce his # against Ferdinand. Have to look again next time I'm at my parent's house.

do you have mineshafts?? or have i just missed them somewhere above...

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

Holy Bull
Olympic - 117

Woodward - 116
Travers - 115
Haskell - 115
Dwyer - 119
Met Mile - 122
Derby - 85
Bluegrass - 113
Fla Derby - 115
FOY - 57
Hutch - 108

In Reality - 93
Futurity - 103
Alw - 91
MSW - 101

Cigar
BC Classic - 115
JC Gold Cup - 115
Woodward - 116
Pacific Classic - 111
Arlington - 117
Mass Cap - 112
Donn - 117

BC Classic - 117
JC Gold Cup - 111
Woodward - 111
Hol Gold Cup - 118
Mass Cap - 117
Pim Special - 114
Oaklawn - 121
GP Handicap - 116
Donn - 114
Alw - 108

Thanks Bravado, very sincerely thanks.
Imagine where the Bull was headed had he not been injured?
DC's race the other day was hyped as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and look what the Bull did as a THREE YEAR OLD in the SUMMER AND EARLY FALL!!!!
Holy Bull's Woodward was twice the race that Discreet Cat's mile was.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I guess its just "a coiincidence" that the one time they met and Harthill couldn't get near SS that SS got bitchslapped by a pole huh?

or the one time was in new york, and easy goer was king of new york. plus the fact that a lot of horses, sunday presumably being one of them, don't like big sandy.
i don't buy the bald eagle being a cheat, not at all.

[slotdirt]

Fewer posters have contributed as much quality information in as short a time as bravado. Well done!

[blackthroatedwind]

I love these figs that Bravado is posting. It is a great reminder of what a good horse genuinely looked like. Seeing Cigar's numbers is very interesting, as at the time everyone that used numbers recognized him as a good horse, and very consistent, but over all not supremely fast. When you compare him to some of the other horses Bravado has posted that is obvious. The problem is that these days very mediocre good horses get annointed as superstars. There was Smarty Jones, a relatively slow good horses ( save his LAST win...the Preakness ), and then there may be the worst offender of all time...Afleet Alex. People talk about him with hushed tones, and he was a nice horse, just slow. Would either of those two horses have run some really " fast " races had they stuck around, possibly, but also quite possibly they would have been swallowed up as perhaps some others improved. I highly doubt Afleet Alex would have had an easy time with the Flower Alley of the summer of 2005. On the other hand, Seattle Slew was " slow " as a 3YO and it wasn't until he was really tested, in the Fall of his 4YO season, that we found out how good he really was.

The point....stop annointing superstars based on a few races and keep some perspective on what we are seeing. These numbers of horses from the last 20 years offer some great perspective. I would like to see Precisionist's numbers, and the distances he was running, at his peak ( and before his awful unretirement ). Then there was Turkoman. Man, these were GOOD horses, and they raced.

[Bravado2112]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I love these figs that Bravado is posting. It is a great reminder of what a good horse genuinely looked like. Seeing Cigar's numbers is very interesting, as at the time everyone that used numbers recognized him as a good horse, and very consistent, but over all not supremely fast. When you compare him to some of the other horses Bravado has posted that is obvious. The problem is that these days very mediocre good horses get annointed as superstars. There was Smarty Jones, a relatively slow good horses ( save his LAST win...the Preakness ), and then there may be the worst offender of all time...Afleet Alex. People talk about him with hushed tones, and he was a nice horse, just slow. Would either of those two horses have run some really " fast " races had they stuck around, possibly, but also quite possibly they would have been swallowed up as perhaps some others improved. I highly doubt Afleet Alex would have had an easy time with the Flower Alley of the summer of 2005. On the other hand, Seattle Slew was " slow " as a 3YO and it wasn't until he was really tested, in the Fall of his 4YO season, that we found out how good he really was.

The point....stop annointing superstars based on a few races and keep some perspective on what we are seeing. These numbers of horses from the last 20 years offer some great perspective. I would like to see Precisionist's numbers, and the distances he was running, at his peak ( and before his awful unretirement ). Then there was Turkoman. Man, these were GOOD horses, and they raced.

Agreed...I always wondered what horses like Turkoman, Precisionist, Snow Chief, Alysheba etc ran on a career-wide basis. I know Beyer's were made in the 80s on the same or similar scale...I wish they'd put them into some kind of publication. The DRF's "champions" book lists all figures from like 1992 on, but anything before that is tough to find. I just have a few random ones such as the ones I've posted.

[Danzig]

what baffles me....horses supposedly aren't as durable. but geldings are?! look at perfect drift, lava man, funny cide (god bless him). they aren't fragile, they keep running. and i'm not talking running sore, these guys lay it on the line, and do it well. yeah, lava can't ship, but my god when he's at home (ala silver train) he's unbeatable. the skimming of this generation.
galls me, it really does, how they pawn off these 'fragile' creatures, while their 'lesser' brethren are the real men after all...

[alysheba4]

i wonder what alysheba beyer was the race prior to b cup? i believe he ran a sub 59 under 130 lbs ....... that horses 1988 campaign was freakish.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

i wonder what alysheba beyer was the race prior to b cup? i believe he ran a sub 59 under 130 lbs ....... that horses 1988 campaign was freakish.

His win in the Woodward, over Forty Niner, was awesome. I think that's the race you are talking about. Yeah, he was another horse that would put these paper tigers to shame.

[alysheba4]

well thats race was a track record at the time, but i believe it was his next start, the medowlands cup?? he went 1.58 and change carrying 130

[Slewbopper]

Is that you Darrell?

Dinver

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

His win in the Woodward, over Forty Niner, was awesome. I think that's the race you are talking about. Yeah, he was another horse that would put these paper tigers to shame.

Damnit, you guys beat me to this. I was just gonna bring Alysheba as well.
Imagine what he would have done to the most recent classic field?
Now thats another great example of a racehorse, and BTW also beat me to mentioning Turkoman. Tell you what, the most incredible race Turkoman ever ran was a losing effort at Saratoga, the 7f race where you never saw a horse in your entire life come down the stretch like he did falling one length short of Groovy, and Groovy was sensational sprinting.
Thsi whole discussion the past few weeks has me realizing how lucky I was to have seen the horses that I have seen, and how little I appreciated them at the time.