Honor Code staying home for ALW; Wood to follow

[tanner12oz]

I don't know what the solution to the derby system is but I think the negatives of the current system are being made very apparent this derby season. I understand that the derby is a race unlike any race all year from a handicapping perspective but I think there should be at least SOME handicapping involved. If the derby would be run tomorrow I wouldn't have the slightest idea who to play. You need horses to run in big races for people to fall for them and support them in the future, for little factoids to be produced to use in support of your selection.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

I don't know what the solution to the derby system is but I think the negatives of the current system are being made very apparent this derby season. I understand that the derby is a race unlike any race all year from a handicapping perspective but I think there should be at least SOME handicapping involved. If the derby would be run tomorrow I wouldn't have the slightest idea who to play. You need horses to run in big races for people to fall for them and support them in the future, for little factoids to be produced to use in support of your selection.

What do you mean negatives of the points system? How is what's happened so far supported the notion the points system is a bad thing? If anything, it's exposed the risk of the recent trend of less preps for 3yo's looking to make the gate. If you get squeezed at the start in the last round of preps and finish 5th, you could be in some serious trouble without the prior points to help you make the race.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

What do you mean negatives of the points system? How is what's happened so far supported the notion the points system is a bad thing? If anything, it's exposed the risk of the recent trend of less preps for 3yo's looking to make the gate. If you get squeezed at the start in the last round of preps and finish 5th, you could be in some serious trouble without the prior points to help you make the race.

i agree.

but i do wish they would make a minimum number of points necessary to get in the gate. if you have a horse win a prep worth enough points, they can skip further races and still glide into the gate on derby day.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i agree.

but i do wish they would make a minimum number of points necessary to get in the gate. if you have a horse win a prep worth enough points, they can skip further races and still glide into the gate on derby day.

I don't believe they would do it, but in a points system, I'd lower the number of points awarded for any one race, thereby almost requiring you to WIN a traditional March/April G1 route or hit the board in multiple events.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I don't believe they would do it, but in a points system, I'd lower the number of points awarded for any one race, thereby almost requiring you to WIN a traditional March/April G1 route or hit the board in multiple events.

whether by demanding a threshold, or a number of starts, or changing the awarded points, i just wish they'd find a way to get them to race these horses more. of course, a rise in purses might help...

[Cannon Shell]

The Derby points system "fixed" an issue that didnt exist.
Fact is with all the big point races the last 60 or so days the trend of lighter campaigns will not change. Horses will start later and later because winning the traditional 2 year old and early season preps are pretty meaningless.

You have to remember that each potential horse is owned for the most part by different people, all following the same script often laid out by trainers who are up to their eyes in contenders.

Just wait till some unraced at 2 horse wins

[Cannon Shell]

Dont forget that many of the power trainers subscribe to the theory that horses shouldnt run that often and they only have so many races in them. Of course a primary reason they feel this way is it helps them get their vast amount of horses in the same conditions raced as opposed to actually believing that horses cant race every month or 9 times a year.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont forget that many of the power trainers subscribe to the theory that horses shouldnt run that often and they only have so many races in them. Of course a primary reason they feel this way is it helps them get their vast amount of horses in the same conditions raced as opposed to actually believing that horses cant race every month or 9 times a year.

you've hit it right on with this. too few trainers with the top horses, and they have to find a way to not tick off an owner by having one of the other horses in the barn beat their horse and knock him out of contention. there's something wrong when one trainer is saddling 1/4th of the derby field.

[tanner12oz]

Maybe they should vote for derby entrants? Then you would never be guaranteed a spot to coast from...

[cmorioles]

I liked it better when they ran crap races like this as exhibitions with no betting. You see a lot of those scanning the book Champions.

[RockHardTen1985]

Ill be hung up at work tomorrow, so I wont be betting the #1.
Now I hope Honor Code blows him off the racetrack.

[blackthroatedwind]

Will the horse on the rail be more than 6:5?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Will the horse on the rail be more than 6:5?

I don't see how he could. It is a 2 and a quarter horse race. There is zero chance any of the three that have a sliver of a chance will offer value.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

Maybe they should vote for derby entrants? Then you would never be guaranteed a spot to coast from...

no, they need a system so everyone knows all that's required to get in. so, now trainers know if you get one win, you're in. the others will be left scrambling and chasing points, while the 'top' horses train up.

[blackthroatedwind]

I think it's fair that Phil said he wasn't supposed to win. That term refers to short priced/logical horses. No firster is really ever " supposed to win " especially one at 9:1. It's not saying it was a shock. It's racetrack jargon.

Steve just disagreed so he would have a chance to name drop and play the insider game. He still hasn't figured out that we know he's an insider:-)

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think it's fair that Phil said he wasn't supposed to win. That term refers to short priced/logical horses. No firster is really ever " supposed to win " especially one at 9:1. It's not saying it was a shock. It's racetrack jargon.

Steve just disagreed so he would have a chance to name drop and play the insider game. He still hasn't figured out that we know he's an insider:-)

Nothing against Manny Azpurua but I don't think name droppin' him even gets you on the Calder backside...!

I would like to know why they have this horse listed with a solitary work at Hollywood Park in June, before starting a standard workout pattern in January at GP. That has to be an error, right?

I really feel like this horse has Preakness written all over him.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by philcski

Nothing against Manny Azpurua but I don't think name droppin' him even gets you on the Calder backside...!

I would like to know why they have this horse listed with a solitary work at Hollywood Park in June, before starting a standard workout pattern in January at GP. That has to be an error, right?

I really feel like this horse has Preakness written all over him.

http://www.drf.com/news/premium/gulf...cial-inclusion

[robfla]

Originally Posted by philcski

I would like to know why they have this horse listed with a solitary work at Hollywood Park in June, before starting a standard workout pattern in January at GP. That has to be an error, right?

He was with Jeff Bonde, and Bonde worked him a handful of times before being transferred to Azparua.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think it's fair that Phil said he wasn't supposed to win. That term refers to short priced/logical horses. No firster is really ever " supposed to win " especially one at 9:1. It's not saying it was a shock. It's racetrack jargon.

Steve just disagreed so he would have a chance to name drop and play the insider game. He still hasn't figured out that we know he's an insider:-)

LOL. The horse was well discussed before the debut. Certainly ATR listeners heard Welsch talk about him with me. The inhibiting factor was the rail draw because he had been reportedly struggling with the gate.

If I was name dropping, I would have said 'Ron and Manny'..

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

:-)

I just wanted to mention that I can now cross one thing off my own, personal things-I-never-thought-I'd-see list.

Either that or I'm hallucinating.