Del Mar... NO MORE POLYTRACK

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I've never seen someone defend synthetics so vociferously. No one's saying that there aren't handicapping angles that can be used to success on synth, but there is an undeniable amount of randomness that occurs, particularly at KEE where horses are shipping in from all different surfaces and figuring out who's going to transfer their form (or jump up 30 points) is like throwing darts blindfolded. You need look no further than the list of Blue Grass winners since KEE switched to know that a track which was once the proving grounds for great horses has become one that elevates mediocrities to stars. It's bad for racing and diminishes the amount of ability it takes to win a Grade 1 on dirt or turf when a horse that would've otherwise been a 25k claimer wins the freaking Blue Grass or Spinster b/c none of the other horses could transfer their form to a joke surface.

Do I have to return my Joha poster?

[pmayjr]

When Joha wins the Canadian this weekend, it'll be worth more

Ateam,

When horses ship to Keeneland from Presque Isle, Turfway, Arlington, Woodbine, SoCal they have proven form over synthetic surfaces so I don't see that as randomness. When a horse ships in to Del Mar having proven success st Hollywood or GG, there's not much randomness there. The randomness at Keeneland, Del Mar, and Saratoga isn't the surface, its you have quality horses coming from all points to make the fields wide open

Once again don't mistake what I'm saying as being a total apologist for the surface, but there's room for both in US racing. And the safety numbers? They seem to back up synths

[randallscott35]

But the Canadian is on a real surface, not Poly...Poly is similar to betting on horses swimming. We just need a big pool. RH10 could be the skimmer.

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

But the Canadian is on a real surface, not Poly...Poly is similar to betting on horses swimming. We just need a big pool. RH10 could be the skimmer.

you admitted just a few posts ago that you bet on horses swimming all the time. Must be due to the "randomness"

[pmayjr]

All I'm saying is, you guys act like Del Mar is getting rid of the black plague it once had, and horse racing is slowly eradicating it. There are a lot bigger issues with the sport, and I think the one with synth tracks is uber overblown. C'mon ATeam, when Keeneland starts up in April, let's go in on some picks you know you're gonna play it as hard as anywhere else you play.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

All I'm saying is, you guys act like Del Mar is getting rid of the black plague it once had, and horse racing is slowly eradicating it. There are a lot bigger issues with the sport, and I think the one with synth tracks is uber overblown. C'mon ATeam, when Keeneland starts up in April, let's go in on some picks you know you're gonna play it as hard as anywhere else you play.

Nah, I'm not. If there's one thing that gives me success, it's discerning between good betting opportunities and lousy ones. Until KEE goes back to dirt at least half their races are bad bets generally.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

All I'm saying is, you guys act like Del Mar is getting rid of the black plague it once had, and horse racing is slowly eradicating it. There are a lot bigger issues with the sport, and I think the one with synth tracks is uber overblown. C'mon ATeam, when Keeneland starts up in April, let's go in on some picks you know you're gonna play it as hard as anywhere else you play.

I dont believe people consider synthetic surfaces an issue, just an annoyance. I'm sure that expense is the chief reason that Del Mar is returning to dirt since they admit that their track needs to be overhauled. The fact that most racing people prefer dirt probably makes the decision even easier

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

you admitted just a few posts ago that you bet on horses swimming all the time. Must be due to the "randomness"

Yes. It's a problem. I agree. Thankfully I will have more dirt in my future

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

When Joha wins the Canadian this weekend, it'll be worth more

Ateam,

When horses ship to Keeneland from Presque Isle, Turfway, Arlington, Woodbine, SoCal they have proven form over synthetic surfaces so I don't see that as randomness. When a horse ships in to Del Mar having proven success st Hollywood or GG, there's not much randomness there. The randomness at Keeneland, Del Mar, and Saratoga isn't the surface, its you have quality horses coming from all points to make the fields wide open

Once again don't mistake what I'm saying as being a total apologist for the surface, but there's room for both in US racing. And the safety numbers? They seem to back up synths

You're really comparing Keeneland's polytrack and the absurdity it produces to Saratoga? Come on. It's not because of the shippers, it's because that track is different than pretty much anything the shippers run on. There's no equation between one synth track to the next.

[pmayjr]

umm yeah I am. Boutique meets have big fields and wide open races because horses ship in from all over. It'll be true for Keeneland whether they have dirt or synth.

And some synth tracks act differently than others, but I'm still gonna take a horse in a synth race that has synth success at any other track over one that doesn't. The results do seem to carry over to different tracks. That's why the past few years you've seen Presque Isle shippers do very well at Keeneland. They have a proven record over another synthetic track.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Do I have to return my Joha poster?

He wasnt a breeding mistake was he?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He wasnt a breeding mistake was he?

I meant horses bred based on synthetic success. So yes if he waters down the breed it becomes a mistake

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I meant horses bred based on synthetic success. So yes if he waters down the breed it becomes a mistake

It was a cheap attempt at patting myself on the back however there is no such thing as "watering the breed down" when it is contracting at a rapid rate. Being that both sides of his pedigree are distinctly grass influenced and he is not exactly by a well regarded or popular sire of sires I'm sure his impact on the breed will be minimal.

[Cannon Shell]

Anyway the debate is now over because Bill Finley has weighed in with a typically arrogant Op-ed piece in TDN that mocks those who are not upset about the demise of synthetic tracks. Being that Finley is almost always wrong in a way that makes PG1985 look like Nostradamus we can now move on with our lives.

I think the track is unfrozen to the point that I actually have to do some work...

[randallscott35]

It adds up. A horse like pioneer of the Nile should only be seeing my tool shed these days. Slopped up slow derby second and marginal shredded tire running success. Maybe pony rides.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

It adds up. A horse like pioneer of the Nile should only be seeing my tool shed these days. Slopped up slow derby second and marginal shredded tire running success. Maybe pony rides.

Uh didnt Pioneer of the Nile just sire 2 Derby prep winners on the dirt?

Breeding is about genetics, not track surface, not medication. A horse by a "turf sire" or out of a "dirt" mare is more likely to share the physical attributes that their parents had which will drive their ability to preform on certain surfaces but as evidenced in a million cases, it doesn't limit them to success solely on that particular surface.

[randallscott35]

Yes. They can all throw something that can outperform on a given surface. See boundary and big brown. Still think syn form is useless for breeding purposes