2013 Eclipse Finalists

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Standard of number of races run in graded stakes and placing in these races should be considered. You can win one or two races and still be a finalist is dumb. If the connections want an eclipse, they shall work for it rather than cherry picking races as they see fit. Winning a BC race is almost a lock to be a finalist. Putting that much weight on one race is absurd. Horses like Authenticity who ran 9 times and finished in the money all 9 times with 7 being graded races. Tiz Miz Sue ran only four and won twice is a finalist in the same category.

I agree that too much emphasis on the Breeders Cup isn't a good thing. But in the case of the 2 year olds they, like older horses are running less than they used to. Ria Antonia won as many grade 1 races as any other 2 year old filly here last year and while she wouldn't be my pick to win the award, I see no problem with her as a finalist. Should Shared Belief not be a finalist for last year? He made only 3 starts.

I also agree that Authenticity should have been a finalist but I think the outrage shown over her omission has been blown way out of proportion. Royal Delta is going to be a deserving runaway winner of that award.

I'd like to see people this passionate over some of the real things plaguing horse racing. Like the on the turf, off the turf fiasco at Fair Grounds this week that I didn't see anyone mention. Authenticity not being a finalist for an award she wasn't going to come close to winning anyway ranks about 9,999th in things people should be mad about right now in horse racing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

I also agree that Authenticity should have been a finalist but I think the outrage shown over her omission has been blown way out of proportion. Royal Delta is going to be a deserving runaway winner of that award.

I'd like to see people this passionate over some of the real things plaguing horse racing. Like the on the turf, off the turf fiasco at Fair Grounds this week that I didn't see anyone mention. Authenticity not being a finalist for an award she wasn't going to come close to winning anyway ranks about 9,999th in things people should be mad about right now in horse racing.

I agree with you that in the big picture the Authenticity "snub" is hardly a big issue on its own. However unlike the other issue that you elude to, putting together a list of pp's for top contenders is a clear cut, simple thing to do and racing can't even get that right.

Bigger Eclipse voting issue is that there are far too many unqualified or just plain clueless people voting.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Bigger Eclipse voting issue is that there are far too many unqualified or just plain clueless people voting.

Sure and this is a problem baseball is facing right now as well. Seems like an easy fix though, less voters.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

I agree that too much emphasis on the Breeders Cup isn't a good thing. But in the case of the 2 year olds they, like older horses are running less than they used to. Ria Antonia won as many grade 1 races as any other 2 year old filly here last year and while she wouldn't be my pick to win the award, I see no problem with her as a finalist. Should Shared Belief not be a finalist for last year? He made only 3 starts.

I also agree that Authenticity should have been a finalist but I think the outrage shown over her omission has been blown way out of proportion. Royal Delta is going to be a deserving runaway winner of that award.

I'd like to see people this passionate over some of the real things plaguing horse racing. Like the on the turf, off the turf fiasco at Fair Grounds this week that I didn't see anyone mention. Authenticity not being a finalist for an award she wasn't going to come close to winning anyway ranks about 9,999th in things people should be mad about right now in horse racing.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52864

the other 9998 things in racing (or thereabouts) also get discussed on this board. and having people without much clue regarding racing having a say in racing related things is a problem. especially if one has an agenda, joe drape is one that comes to mind.
people discussing voting doesn't necessarily equate to 'outrage'. it's just one of myriad topics discussed on here.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52864

the other 9998 things in racing (or thereabouts) also get discussed on this board. and having people without much clue regarding racing having a say in racing related things is a problem. especially if one has an agenda, joe drape is one that comes to mind.
people discussing voting doesn't necessarily equate to 'outrage'. it's just one of myriad topics discussed on here.

My mistake, one person mentioned it. I wonder how many people even realize why it is an issue. But there are a dozen posts about Authenticity not being a finalist for an award she isn't winning anyway.

Sorry, but one seems like an important issue to me and one doesn't. Just my opinion of course and I enjoy all of the discussions here. But one actually impacted people and one didn't.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

My mistake, one person mentioned it and no one else had anything to say about it. But there are a dozen posts about Authenticity not being a finalist for an award she isn't winning anyway.

Sorry, but one seems like an important issue to me and one doesn't. Just my opinion of course and I enjoy all of the discussions here. But one actually impacted people and one didn't.

The reason it's important is because it's a bad message that is a direct disincentive to the way in which Authenticity was campaigned. She ran 9x from Jan-Nov as opposed to horses who ran wholly incomplete seasons. Authenticity also deserved to be recognized because rather than give up on the mare after a series of setbacks and simply breed her, the connections waited out her physical issues and gave her a chance to fulfill her potential. That's also a positive message that deserved acknowledgement. And as Chuck points out, her being overlooked is an indictment of the way things are run and of those that are supposed to be taking the sport seriously.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Kasept

The reason it's important is because it's a bad message that is a direct disincentive to the way in which Authenticity was campaigned. She ran 9x from Jan-Nov as opposed to horses who ran wholly incomplete seasons. Authenticity also deserved to be recognized because rather than give up on the mare after a series of setbacks and simply breed her, the connections waited out her physical issues and gave her a chance to fulfill her potential. That's also a positive message that deserved acknowledgement. And as Chuck points out, her being overlooked is an indictment of the way things are run and of those that are supposed to be taking the sport seriously.

Sorry, but I don't agree Steve about its' importance.

I'm glad they waited out her issues and actually raced her, because that is what racehorses do, but are we in such bad shape that we need to send positive messages to connections for doing that?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

My mistake, one person mentioned it. I wonder how many people even realize why it is an issue. But there are a dozen posts about Authenticity not being a finalist for an award she isn't winning anyway.

Sorry, but one seems like an important issue to me and one doesn't. Just my opinion of course and I enjoy all of the discussions here. But one actually impacted people and one didn't.

a dozen? and of course horses included or left out will be discussed in a thread about eclipse awards.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

a dozen? and of course horses included or left out will be discussed in a thread about eclipse awards.

It was 10, not 12. Got me.

My point remains the same. I wonder if there would have been this kind of outrage had Steve not said anything. I follow the sport very closely and until Steve said something I didn't even realize she was omitted, because I never even considered her a winner of the award.

Maybe that is what happened to the voters. I don't know. Just so there is no confusion, I understand why this is an issue, I just wish issues that actually impact people were discussed with this much passion.

[10 pnt move up]

This happens every year, obviously this is more personal for Steve in this case, his comments should be viewed as such.

There are a lot of people voting that do not take it seriously or do it fairly, hard to hold these awards with any value given that light.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

It was 10, not 12. Got me.

My point remains the same. I wonder if there would have been this kind of outrage had Steve not said anything. I follow the sport very closely and until Steve said something I didn't even realize she was omitted, because I never even considered her a winner of the award.

Maybe that is what happened to the voters. I don't know. Just so there is no confusion, I understand why this is an issue, I just wish issues that actually impact people were discussed with this much passion.

they are, or even more so.

i have never understood why people jump into a discussion only to say it shouldn't be taking place, or that other things are more important.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

they are, or even more so.

i have never understood why people jump into a discussion only to say it shouldn't be taking place, or that other things are more important.

They are? Where?

As for your second paragraph that isn't what I did.

[Sightseek]

Willis Horton

[Kasept]

ECLIPSE VOTING: http://www.ntra.com/eclipse_awards/f..._Composite.pdf

[tbevans]

Can someone explain the vote count? MMM is listed 2nd but appears to have more "points" than WD. Or is this really just a question of first place votes?

[tbevans]

Sorry I mean for Older Male.

[robfla]

Originally Posted by tbevans

Can someone explain the vote count? MMM is listed 2nd but appears to have more "points" than WD. Or is this really just a question of first place votes?

Eclipse Awards voters cast their ballots to rank the top three horses and individuals in each Championship division on a 10-5-1 point system basis. Eclipse Award winners are determined by first-place votes only.


Why even have a point system if first place votes ONLY count towards winning?

[Cannon Shell]

Next year I'm buying Dan LeBatard's vote, leaving the ballot blank except voting for myself as champion breeder and Dee Tee stable as owner and some miscellaneous filly sprinter for Steeplechase champion just to see if anyone is paying attention.

It is ridiculous that 249 people are voting on these awards considering the large number of qualified people who dont have a vote and the fact that the number of actual full time media members that deserve a vote is about 10% of the total.

Yeah in the end it doesnt matter that much, virtually no one outside of racing cares and a large majority of people in racing dont much care either but this is an easy fix and doesnt require any govt approval or contractual agreements.

[Cannon Shell]

I'm also going to name a horse Abstain just to confuse the issue further